please empty your brain below

I don't consider it 'environmentally friendly' to turn the engine off automatically when the doors open. The local 410 route (using 'Enviro200' buses according to the list) does this. By the nature of the route, these stops for passengers are only of a few seconds each, whereas the bus is often held at traffic lights for a minute or more (but the engine does not turn off).

Turning the engine off then on again after a few seconds (with a ker-whumph as the starter comes in and a puff of smoke from the exhaust) must surely wear out the starter and the engine faster than maintaining a slow tickover. The logic seems odd.

The LEBZ appears to be all about NOx. Compliance with the Euro 6 standard should mean lower tailpipe emissions of CO2 and particulates too, I hope.
Bus geek here, The 205 is all good - only hybrid vehicles are on the route and the garage it operates from only has hybrid vehicles.

dg writes: Cheers!
Given that buses are effective movers of people, I would much rather have the situation where the bus garage sent out an occasional older bus to run the service, rather than take the easy way out and cancel trips because there's No Low Emission Bus Available.
"But I am not a proper bus geek..."

No, sorry..I'm not buying it.
I'm afraid the green stickers aren't a good way of identifying a EuroVI vehicle. On some older vehicles (e.g. 2003-05) they just mean that the bus has been upgraded from EuroIII to EuroIV, which isn't good enough for a LEBZ. So the 2004/05 buses on the 86 might not be compliant, unless they've been further upgraded to EuroVI, but who knows? As you've seen, the use of the green labels is inconsistent.

As a general rule anything from 2014 onwards should be EuroVI regardless of any green stickers.

By the way a hybrid isn't necessarily EuroVI. Hybrids built before 2014 are generally EuroV, and many have had to be upgraded for use in the ULEZ.
Bus routes where all of yesterday's vehicles were built in or after 2014:
25, 147, 205, 276, 308, 330, W19

Bus routes where some of yesterday's vehicles were 10 or more years old:
86, 104, 108, 325
RayL - My experience of buses switching engines off differs to yours. The bus moves off on an electric motor and then the engine kicks in - blends in might be a better description. I have never seen a puff of smoke as a consequence. As someone who regularly crosses the road behind the bus as it departs I welcome this as you don't get a blast of exhaust as you cross. It is also kinder to people waiting at the bus stop for their bus.

If I would criticise this I would say the diesel kicks in far too soon suggesting very limited storage in the battery.

I would also suggest starting off in electric mode is ideal because good batteries are ideal at producing strong torque (as needed to get the bus moving - think of electric screwdrivers) whereas a diesel engine is more appropriate for steady progress at a reasonable speed.

If I were a proper bus geek

you wouldn't have written another classic DG blog post.
Does this policy mean less clean buses are being reshuffled to other routes that previously had cleaner buses? Have they created High Emission Bus Zones elsewhere? Any bus nerds (or non bus nerds) care to comment on what they've actually done?

(Meanwhile in Shenzhen, where the device you're reading this on was made, all 16,000 buses of their are fully electric. TfL's ambitious deadline to do the same is 2037)
Trolley Busses, very planet friendly!
I'm surprised at the old buses, they must be partly rebuilt since 2002? A bus route for Theseus.
I can't find a single bus that isn't ULEZ compliant according to the checker at https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle-35896

For example the ten year old BG09JJK running on the 108 apparently complies.

Is the checker broken? Can anyone find a TfL bus that doesn't comply?
But how is the electricity that powers Shenzhen's buses generated?
Quite probably a fair portion is solar. China has gone solar in a big way (and also makes a substantial portion of the world's solar panels which it both uses both internally and exports (US president permitting).

Also the Three Gorges Dam (hydro-electric) is less than 1000km away.

As (from the press release) all buses will be Euro VI by October 2020, it's not as if the rest of London will have to wait much longer!

As said elsewhere, you can't tell just by reading the bus type (e.g. Enviro 400) or seeing the green sticker outside, as the same basic bus design will have been in production for several years, but to different pollution standards as technology changed. And retrofit schemes have then upgraded older buses, though not necessarily to Euro VI.
An interesting article here on Shenzen. It's an excellent scheme but expensive (the conversion costs for the garages) and being flat and warm helps too.
Loving the website that gives details of all vehicle movements (Also randomly in Reading and the Lothian area). thanks for digging that up
An impressive report for a non-bus-geek! I had to travel behind a modern vintage vehicle recently...the stink!!!! And we didn't notice when these were everywhere.
Meanwhile, fewer than 50 miles away, school bus services are regularly run by 30 and even 40 year old pollution-belching double deckers, and public bus routes have been reduced or scrapped altogether.

LHR, LGW and STN have all been allowed (indeed, politically encouraged) to expand.

What is going on?
In the vehicle checker, even the (real) Routemasters working the heritage services (15H) seem to be ULEZ exempt. They were all re-engined about twenty years ago, but even so that's quite old.

Is there an exemption for buses?
all London buses should be zero-emissions (at point of use), air-conditioned and with wi-fi. then we can say we are a world-class city...cutting edge and progressive. it 2020 next year...the future has arrived! ...but we still lagging. whilst they at it...an extensive tree planting scheme should also be implemented...creating green corridors into/out of the great metropolis.
There isn't a general exemption for all UK buses as the 84 which runs from New Barnet to St Albans appears to use non compliant vehicles (eg LK08DWG).
Here in the outer London borough of Havering, I was just passed, while out running, by a diesel sounding Dial a Ride bus.
I am reliably informed that things are different today...
• "As a result of the new Stratford scheme route 86 is 100% E400!"
• "First time ever (I think) there has never been a Trident on the 86."

The old bus in my photo has moved to route 247 today, while its fellow 2003 vehicle has been transferred to route 296, both outside the LEBZ.
As I understand the rules, all buses have had to be fully accessible since 1st January 2017, so the use of 30-40 year old buses on school routes has ceased, but the first accessible double deckers were introduced in 1999, so you could have buses up to twenty years old on these routes.

The 217 was (and will be) the last TfL route to get new double deck diesel buses as part of a new contract in June 2017 - but there is nothing to stop other new contracts being operated with existing diesel buses which are Euro compliant, as some operators have plenty of mid-life (new in 2010-13) examples available.

Single deck routes outside zone 1 can still be specified with new Euro VI diesels.
To solve the mystery of the 410 shutting off the engine when the doors open, I cycled round to Shotfield in Wallington (the terminus) and asked a driver. He didn't know who made the buses but they are all diesel-only.

Apparently they will be made (as he put it) 'less diesel' in the future with the addition of something called 'blue' in the fuel. Two versions of this single-decker are used on this route. The more modern version has the automatic engine shut-off.

Good that TfL has millions in Council Tax Payers money to modify their perfectly good vehicles to be EuroVI compliant. Its a shame us poor council tax payers dont have access to this fund to pay for the modifications necessary on our own perfect good serviceable vehicles though!
Do you have a link to that Still Anon? I have a neighbour who would be very interested...

Old G-reg, H-reg, M- and P- reg double deckers regularly service school routes in this area (country lanes into small towns), and a couple with personal plates that seem even older but are then not so obvious.

I understand that parents who have complained have been told by the LA that they can only select operators from tenders made, and there are only a couple of local companies left who do this kind of work (and have been doing for many years), who don't bid against each other.

Students with physical disabilities have EHCPs and get free taxi transport provided. If there are accessibility rules, is this being used to get round them?

Current state of play for Chiswick High Road LEBZ:

• 237 Operated by Metroline. Should use modified Euro IV engined Volvo B9TL buses upgraded to Euro VI emission standard. However some of the fleet have yet to be upgraded & these buses still stray on to the 237.
• 267 Operated by London United. Converted from Euro II Scanias to NBFL. The LTs for this route are LT149, 150 & 984-1000. These will transfer with the route to Abellio in December.
• 272 London United. New E200 MMCs on order.
• 391/440 London United. New E200 MMCs in service.
• N9 London United. Route transferred from Hounslow to Stamford Brook garage to enable Euro III Scanias to be replaced by NBFLs.
• N11 Go-Ahead London. NBFL.
Tridents started on the 86 around 2000. Prior to that they were Titans (including T1) and before that RMs
I used to be a local, so am quite familiar with most of the bus routes in question. In fact 7 of them (147, 241, 262, 276, 325, 330, 473) pass very close to my old house so I suppose that a by-product of this LEBZ is that the place I used to live will have marginally cleaner air.
RayL, the "blue" is another attempt at a enviro "patch-it" job by the motor/fuel industry. to add insult to injury it available in some locations in chunky plastic containers!
Andrew Jarman: Various studies have shown that spending money on making buses is much more cost-effective than spending it on cars if you want environmental benefits.

A bus operates for many hours a day, seven days a week usually. It consumes vast quantities of diesel fuel. Far better to target the biggest polluters than worry too much about cars - as reflected in the daily charge if vehicles are not LEZ/ULEZ compliant.
That does seem odd on the 410. I didn't know any buses did that. Like you I can't really see the point - unless it is to try and fool people that they are hybrid.
AdBlue is the name of the stuff. It's ammonia, injected into the fuel feed to do something chemical with the resulting emissions. Hmm; normally it's the punters who do the pissing inside the buses...
Automatic engine cut off ("auto stop-start")is quite common in cars too. Mine has it, and is not a hybrid.

The accessibility requirements may not apply to all buses, just those on public "stage carriage" routes. Charters may have different rules. There are certainly many long distance coaches with many steps up to the seating area.
Legislation for coaches has delayed date for a number of reasons.

By design present coaches are hard to convert, whereas London double deck buses could have a wheelchair lift conversion for under £15k back as far as 1984 because the lower level is given over to passengers, not luggage.

Additionally there are significant number of small companies who would be put out of business by requiring accessible coaches, in much the same way as many motorists could not afford to replace their cars if diesel was outlawed in a couple of years time.

Reality has to have a sensible part of the legislation, even if the tree huggers want immediate change (and even if Emma Thompson cannot travel economy for 7 hours for a TV promotion each way because of her age, but I can do 12 hours journey next month at the same age!).

It would be very useful to know how these LEB zones are faring, however the monitoring equipment in Putney High Street and Brixton Road has not been working.

dg writes: Read the evaluation report.

One positive effect is a noticeable reduction in noise. One side of my flat is within earshot of 8 routes and 4 night routes passing the end of the street, and I'm rarely aware of the buses now. It used to be a real racket.
Blue Witch - The government site is here.

As others have mentioned, coaches don't have to comply until 1st January 2020 - so you may have an old coach, I don't know the ins and outs (is there a legal wiggle where you fit coach seats in a bus?, or is the school bus classed as a private hire instead of a stage carriage service?, some schools around London have their own arrangements using coaches).

Thanks for the link Still Anon. It says it only applies to new vehicles though? And it also states that there can be exceptions.

I think it shows that your assertion, "so the use of 30-40 year old buses on school routes has ceased" was wrong, and why, in many areas of the country, very old buses can still legally be used on (state) school routes, now, and going forward.

Which must be quite wrong.

Provided the buses are suitable for everyone who needs to use it, there is nothing wrong with that. It is obviously easier to determine what those requirements are if the provision is a private charter for a specific group of individuals, such as the pupils enrolled at a school, rather than a public service, and it is irrelevant whether the school in question is private or state.

What would be illegal is to refuse to enrol a new pupil simply because the school bus is unsuitable. The legally required "reasonable adjustment" would be to provide a suitable vehicle, either by replacing the school bus with a wheelchair-accessible one, or by making alternative arrangements for that pupil, such as a taxi.

Regarding the 86,Stagecoach London have a load of hybrid Volvo double deckers parked up & stored out of use awaiting dispersal to other parts of the Stagecoach empire at West Ham garage.These vehicles were used on routes out of Plumstead garage,and have recently been replaced by spare hybrid Enviro 400s off the 54 & 75 from Catford garage, which have got new smart hybrid,(there's another new term for you) Enviro 400 MMCs.It would have made more sense to send some of the hybrid Volvos to Romford garage to enable some of the elderly Tridents to be disposed of.
The single deck buses on the W19 have Euro VI engines,so are LEBZ compliant.They also have a flywheel (manual gearbox)hybrid system which cuts the engine out when it is at a stand,thus further reducing emissions.
What a sham. The amount of money spent marketing this scheme and the routes involved aren't even hybrid or electric. Why not just focus on converting routes to zero emission electrics, instead of sacrificing air quality from one part of London to another.

You'd think a busy trunk route like the 86, linking most of the important places in East London like Stratford and Romford, would be run using something better than 2003 plates. I can kinda understand using an old bus on a minor route or school service, but certainly not this route.
timbo - My point wasn't about accessibility or the Equality Act (and indeed I covered that off in my 2.55pm comment).

DG's last line was, "Fewer of our buses are killing us, hurrah, but the problem's nowhere near fixed yet."

I was pointing out that what is happening in the capital is all fine and dandy, but, 50 miles away, filthy 30 and 40 year old diesel buses are still being used on school routes.

When the school buses come down our lane, I can smell them for minutes afterwards. Children have to wait to get on the bus breathing in its visible black fumes, and those children travelling often get off the bus with sore throats as the fumes go into the bus (and gather at the back). Parents' complaints to the LA have been met with indifference and excuses (as detailed above).

It is that situation that is quite wrong. Much, much worse for everyone than the accessibility thing that affects comparatively few people.











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