please empty your brain below

Intersting article.

Up north the main change happened in 1974. I used to live in south Sheffield that was once part of Derbyshire but that changed years before.
I then moved to an area of Stockport which was in Derbyshire until 1974.
I now live in Hadfield which survived becoming part of Tameside and is in the High Peak area of Derbyshire. The next village up was strangely part of Cheshire but was switched to Derbyshire in 1974 when the rest of North East Cheshire became Tameside.

I often wonder how peoples outlook and how they see themselves changes whey they become part of another county ot a city.
Beckenham' s last town hall, built in 1932, survived until 1990 when it was demolished to make way for Marks and Spencer. The previous offices of the Beckenham Local Board, which later developed into the Urban District Council, remain today opposite the 13th century lych gate of St George's church.
» Heritage trail leaflet
» Picture of the old Beckenham town hall with its tower
More fascinating stuff, thanks!

The map showing the parts of Woolwich north of the Thames also shows an exclave of Walthamstow in Leyton, which I've just been looking into. It's origins are unknown - it was possibly the route of a Roman road - but it was apparently known as the 'Walthamstow Slip', and existed until 1885.

There are a few more details here. I'm trying to find a pre-1885 map of the area, because I think I might possibly live in it.
Interesting to see that Merton was almost called Morden! I knew there was some debate about the name between the towns of Mitcham and Morden. Merton's always struck me as a curious choice of name thanks to the modern settlement of Merton being a rather indistinct and unknown thing. It's difficult to get any real idea where it starts, where it ends or what it contains. And I say that as someone who actually lives in part of the modern settlement of Merton!

Back to town halls, and to give it a second reference, I grew up in the Metropolitain Borough of Tameside, on the east of Manchester. Tameside was formed of nine different districts.

What always gets me is that a large number of the town halls in Tameside still exist and remain in council use. Denton, Hyde, Dukinfield and Ashton town halls all remain, used for various activities. They're the pride of the town centres they sit in.

Contrast this with Wimbledon where the 1931 town hall is home to a branch of Tesco. It breaks my heart every time I see it.

One final thing on Morden Hall - according to the National Trust there's a plan to re-open the pub. We will see...
Interesting - I hadn't realised quite how close in the LCC boundary reached: for example I had assumed that since places like Acton and Wimbledon had London postcodes they were in the LCC.

You mentioned "Potters Bar in Middlesex escaped, transferring to Hertfordshire", but not the much larger chunk of Middlesex (the Staines/Ashford area) that was adopted by Surrey.

And shouldn't your map show Barnet as having been in Herts rather than Mddx?

Malden & Coombe
Interesting fact about The Maldens & Coombe District Council. It was incorporated in 1936, and its civic mace therefore had the rare distinction of carrying the arms of Kings Edward VIII.
The fa├žade of the town hall is now incorporated into a branch of Waitrose
Sorry, that's the best I can do.


@Andrew B
"Merton's always struck me as a curious choice of name thanks to the modern settlement of Merton being a rather indistinct and unknown thing"

For many people, if it's not on the Tube map it can't really be in London, can it?

@Rick
"Stockport which was in Derbyshire until 1974"
Cheshire, actually.


Sutton council sold off Carshalton Town Hall (a library at the time) a couple of years back. The library got slashed in size and squeezed into a corner of the new leisure centre.
"Fifty years ago tomorrow, on 1st April 1965, Greater London was born"

And people still aren't too sure whether it was intended as a joke or not!
Bexley moved out of Erith in the late 70s/early 80s to a purpose-built, very boring "civic centre" in Bexleyheath.

Then last year Bexley moved over the road into the old Woolwich Building Society HQ while the civic centre was bulldozed for a Tesco which will now never come.
For a time, once things had settled after its introduction, there seemed to be something of a feeling that the GLC would have some sort of permanence.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32293736@N04/16393822748
@Andrew Bowden - an alternative scheme for what became the Centre Court shopping centre in Wimbledon in 1992 included the demolition of the Town Hall (like the Fire Station and Baptist Church)
"..<insert interesting fact about the Municipal Borough of Malden and Coombe>..."

Oh, could you not find one?
@timbo

"And shouldn't your map show Barnet as having been in Herts rather than Mddx?"

The London Borough of Barnet was formed from districts that were previously in Herts and Middx, so it was a bit of both.
Regarding the Old Town Hall in Stratford. A few years back a head of one of the statues that stood on the parapet of the building fell to the ground. As a result of this all of the statues were removed. I wrote to the council asking when they were to be put back and was told that they would be replaced as part of a Town Hall refurbishment possibly within 18-24 months. That was about 3 years ago but they have still not been replaced on this Grade II listed building.
Never quite understood why some areas north of the Thames ended up with "south" postcodes...
@2:13pm Only Barnet proper was in Herts. The three boroughs of Finchley, Friern Barnet, and Hendon were in Middlesex. Together they made up the new London Borough of Barnet.

The ambiguous use of a place name to mean both a locality and the much larger London borough in which that locality happens to be causes a lot of confusion. For example, Hanworth is either in Richmond, or eight miles away, for different definitions of "Richmond"

It was mentioned that Surrey CC's offices haven't been in Surrey for 50 years: the same used to apply to Middlesex of course, Middlesex Guildhall being in Parliament Square, and now the home of the Supreme Court.

Looking at the map of the LCC area, I am puzzled as to why it extended so much further downstream on the south bank than the north - why was Woolwich in, but East and West Ham and Barking out?
@Ed
"Never quite understood why some areas north of the Thames ended up with "south" postcodes..."

Look at a map of Central London and you'll see that the Thames runs from south to east in a large curve - at Westminster it is flowing almost due north. Only the SE quarter of central London is on the Surrey bank.

(At Teddington Lock, it flows almost due west!)
West Ham and East Ham were County Boroughs, so not administered as part of Essex. The same applied to Croydon in Surrey.
@ timbo
mmm...I see what you mean. So, all of north London is north of the river Thames, but a little of south London is north of the Thames. Must be odd saying one lives north of the river Thames in south London ;)
I did some searching for Sutton's original town hall (the borough is now based in the civic centre). It was 'The Municipal Offices':
http://www.francisfrith.com/sutton/sutton-the-municipal-offices-1902_48864
Since demolished and replaced by an 1970s complex (Wilkinson's is now on the site of that picture).
@timbo The legislation that created the Metropolitan Board of Works did not allow its area to go east of the river Lee. As the County of London was the MBW area essentially unchanged this explains the anomaly. When they looked to introduce legislation to expand the MBW are into Essex, West Ham wanted none of it so got a borough charter which prevented their inclusion in London.
Thanks everyone. I've made about half a dozen tweaks to the post in response to your helpful comments.
Interesting! Since you've noted in a few instances that new boroughs were "almost called" something different, let me add that Waltham Forest was almost called Walthamstow (but Leyton and Chingford objected) and then almost called Forest (but everyone objected).

Worth recalling too that although formal integration into London only happened in 1965, most of the outlying boroughs had used London postal districts for many years prior to that.
Well the original London Postal District covered the entirety of what is now Greater London (then I suppose mostly countryside). It was retracted before the 20th century though. Shame Royal Mail couldn't have restored it when they created the post code system, would have prevented a lot of confusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_postal_district#/media/File:Londonpostal_iln_1857.jpg
"Must be odd saying one lives north of the river Thames in south London ;)"

I think most residents of SW1, SW3, SW5, SW6, SW7 and SW10 would say they lived in West London
@Timbo

Marple Bridge is an area that used to be in Derbyshire.
Two small areas at the very southern tip of LB Croydon which were incorporated into the London Borough reverted to Surrey a few years later. From Wikipedia:
"The London Government Act 1963 Section 6 (4) provided a mechanism for communities on the edge of Greater London to petition for transfer to a neighbouring county. The legislation required the petition to be submitted between 1965 and 1970, to be signed by more than 300 local electors and for the area to be transferred to have no more than 10% of the borough's local electors. Following this procedure, in 1969 Farleigh was transferred back to Surrey to form part of the Chelsham and Farleigh parish in Godstone Rural District and Hooley became part of Banstead Urban District.
@Marple Bridge is an area that used to be in Derbyshire.

...........only until 1936 when, along with the rest of the parish of Ludworth, it was transferred from the Derbyshire district of Chapel-en-le-Frith to the Cheshire district of Marple (which itself became part of Stockport in 1974).

Closer to home, here have been other boundary changes - when Terminal 4 was built at Heathrow, the Hounslow/Spelthorne boundary ran through the middle, incidentally restoring a Tube service to Surrey for a few years until the boundary was tidied up in 1994.

The external boundary of Greater London has not changed for twenty years, but there have been many changes to the inter-borough boundaries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greater_London_boundary_changes
@Timbo

I knew it was at one point just a couple of generations out.
Interesting stuff this. Why though is Bromley still referred to as Bromley, Kent when it's a London Borough? Don't suppose it's simply to distinguish from Bromley by Bow?










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