please empty your brain below
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2. Between 1934 and 1992 Westbourne Park was the first station out of Paddington.
Moorgate used to be even closer to its first station, when National Rail trains still also ran via Barbican, but Holborn Viaduct to Blackfriars was even shorter.
Broad Street to Dalston Junction was about two miles
timbo | 04.02.20 - 7:17 a.m. | #
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Westbourne Park was the first station out of Paddington until 1992 when the mainline platforms were removed as part of layout remodelling works.
dg writes: Updated thanks.
Grizzle | 04.02.20 - 7:18 a.m. | #
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Broad Street - Shoreditch must've been a pretty short distance as well.
Still Anon | 04.02.20 - 7:29 a.m. | #
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So-called termini with through trains are a bit of a problem. Like Blackfriars north, you could go north from London Bridge to Blackfriars (on the way out to Bedford, say), which from what you say sounds like it should be closer than South Bermondsey. And south from St Pancras to Farringdon (on the way out to Brighton, say). But neither really feels like a first stop out of London when you are really travelling in to get out of the other side.
Andrew | 04.02.20 - 7:34 a.m. | #
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Was Kensington Olympia ever considered a terminus? (for Eurostar when Waterloo was out?)
dg writes: Yes (and no)
Tom | 04.02.20 - 8:30 a.m. | #
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Yes I was going to mention Kenny O. I think you are right it used to be considered a London Terminal. I think on the early days of privatisation of the railways Virgin Cross Country used to stop there with some of their services to Kent and/or the south coast too.
Jon Combe | 04.02.20 - 8:37 a.m. | #
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National Rail seem to draw a distinction between London Terminals and London Termini. City Thameslink, Farringdon, Waterloo East, and Vauxhall are included in the first category but not the second. Olympia used to be, but I'm not sur it still counts. As tickets to "London Terminals" are not valid between CTL and Farringdon, I assume the first stops from them are Balckffriars and St Pancras respectively.
Royal Oak and Westbourne Park both opened in 1871.
Timbo | 04.02.20 - 8:54 a.m. | #
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St Pancras is an unusual situation because you are including the sub-surface Thameslink station which has through trains and is more like the RER or S-Bahn.
If you exclude departures from there then the surprising next nearest station appears to be Stratford International. And the next station northbound is Luton.
Similarly, if you exclude the Crossrail station, then for most of the day, in future, the first stop out of Paddington will be at least Slough and possibly Maidenhead or Reading.
Pedantic of Purley | 04.02.20 - 11:27 a.m. | #
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There is now a reasonable replacement for Spa Road in the form of Bermondsey station on the Jubilee Line Extension.
straphan | 04.02.20 - 11:50 a.m. | #
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Also, although (almost) no Southeastern trains terminate at London Bridge, the next stops for them are either New Cross or Deptford, which are considerably further out than South Bermondsey.
straphan | 04.02.20 - 11:53 a.m. | #
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I'm glad my termini suggestion has been taken up! :)
E(spadrilles) | 04.02.20 - 12:17 p.m. | #
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When Holborn Viaduct station existed, its first station would have been very close too
Blackfriars was the first for most of its life, but until 1929 Ludgate Hill would have been even nearer!
Mikey C | 04.02.20 - 12:29 p.m. | #
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Camden Road was the first station out of St Pancras until WW1. Not the Camden Road that's on the NLL / Overground ( that was called Camden Town in those days.)You can still see where it was as there's a gap between tracks.
ap | 04.02.20 - 1:27 p.m. | #
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Just for completeness the first stop out of Liverpool Street would have been Bishopsgate until May 1916.
Still Anon | 04.02.20 - 2:07 p.m. | #
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Waterloo East is a terminal station in its own right. Waterloo East to London Bridge is 1.1 mile (or as you state 0.76 miles to Charing Cross the other way). You could move London Bridge a lot further up the table because of this.
dg writes: Waterloo East is "not technically a London terminus".
davews | 04.02.20 - 3:23 p.m. | #
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A related question to the first stop is which station can act as a stand-in terminal (perhaps only for a limited number of trains) if the terminus is out of action. Finsbury Park, Watford Junction and Stratford have played this understudy role from time to time, as have others. Old Oak Common is going to have this aspect built in, we are told.
Malcolm | 04.02.20 - 3:55 p.m. | #
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Not totally related to this post but does anyone know if the front of the current trains enters City Thameslink before the back leaves Blackfriars. Looking at Wikipedia the trains seem 20 metres or so to short, however it is not clear whereabouts on the station the 0.18 miles quoted in DG's post is from.
Simon G | 04.02.20 - 5:54 p.m. | #
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Normally distances are measured between the middle of the platform at one station and the middle at the next, but 0.18 miles is 290 metres which, measured on Google Maps, appears to be the distance between the platform ends at these two stations. A 12-car Class 700 unit is 242.6 metres.
As I was a regular user of Blackfriars at one time, I would agree the gap is about two car-lengths longer than a 12-car train. However, the station roof at Blackfriars extends about two car-lengths beyond the platform at the north end, so the two ends of the train could both be under the respective station roofs.
timbo | 04.02.20 - 7:14 p.m. | #
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Re Fenchurch St you have forgotten Minories and Cannon Street Road
Andrew Jarman | 05.02.20 - 11:06 a.m. | #
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If you travel north on the Thameslink from the south, you will stop at London Bridge, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon and St pancras, in that order.
All but Farringdon count as London Terminals from the point of view of ticket machines and are mentioned as such on the National Rail link. Why not Farringdon?
Will | 05.02.20 - 12:55 p.m. | #
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All those stations (except Farringdon) were owned by British Rail (as it used to be) whereas Faringdon was always owned and operated by London Underground (now tfl).
It used to be really difficult to buy tickets to national rail destinations at Farington (because it was an LU station) but that's likely to change now that it is (soon - ish) to be a Crossrail / Elizabeth / Purple line station.
IslandDweller | 06.02.20 - 4:20 p.m. | #
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Farringdon is not listed by NR as a "London Terminal". This means that you cannot travel to, from, or through it on a "London terminals" ticket, and therefore cannot use such a ticket for a journey such as Luton to London Bridge or Gatwick to St Pancras. For that a "London Thameslink" ticket is required.
timbo | 07.02.20 - 9:25 a.m. | #
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