please empty your brain below
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So, the Victoria Line will have world class capacity in two years' time and then have a major upgrade three years after that? That doesn't seem to make sense.
Dave | 01.08.14 - 7:29 a.m. | #
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Dave - I think the second Victoria upgrade is the tube station (which is currently being rebuilt). I'm surprised it will take them so long though.
How many of these plans are costed and budgeted for? Presumably the 2016-18 plans are, but 2020 onwards must just be wish-thinking.
Dan | 01.08.14 - 8:06 a.m. | #
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And after all that, London will be full! Next city, move along please.
Geofftech | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 8:07 a.m. | #
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As Boris hopes to demolish Heathrow airport I am surprised he has plans for a new rail link there from South London.
John | 01.08.14 - 8:16 a.m. | #
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Always need to be sceptical of future plans: how many goats were sacrificed and their entrails looked at for this one?
Abercrombie never came off, other plans have not come off so why should this be any different. I think it's really time to acknowledge that in Britain things grow organically and when there is a desperate need then something will be done.
Richard | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 8:36 a.m. | #
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15 years to extend a *tram*? Particularly when the borough involved is an enthusiastic supporter?
Chz | 01.08.14 - 8:42 a.m. | #
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Could you please leave Boris alone, just for once?
The reason we now have the energy, accommodation, and transport infrastructure crises (to name but three) that we do in this country is precisely because there was inadequate long-term planning by past governances at every level.
Yes, of course it will change, but at least it is a start, to build on and aspire towards!
Well done to all those involved I say.
Blue Witch | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 9:13 a.m. | #
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Wot? Not even a mention of possible additional river crossings (bridge or ferry)??? Have they already predicted the results of the current consultations are unlikely to bring about anything productive :(
RogerW | 01.08.14 - 9:22 a.m. | #
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Sorry, my mistake. Your list does, obviously, state 'rail' improvements.
RogerW | 01.08.14 - 9:26 a.m. | #
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Page 77-78 of the report shows the proposed river crossings
| 01.08.14 - 9:33 a.m. | #
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In 1974 the Motorway Box (Ringways A, B, C and D) was still part of the plan. None of them were ever completed, and it is unlikely they ever will be.
The good folk of Hayes don't want the Bakerloo line: why replace their nice full-size ten-car (soon to be twelve) trains to a choice of City and West End destinations with poky little six- or seven-car tube-size trains going no nearer the City than the Elephant?
timbo | 01.08.14 - 9:37 a.m. | #
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Have just realised - where's the extension to the cable car/dangleway in this? Surely an oversight!
geofftech | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 9:55 a.m. | #
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May I echo Chz.... Fifteen YEARS to extend Tramlink? Even Edinburgh's tram system - the build of which was a disaster - took only 13 years from proposal in 2001.
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 9:55 a.m. | #
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Perhaps thinking "out of the box" will help. Why not have a "new hub airport" in another part of England that is not the South-East. Maybe even consider having a "second capital city"?!...shift some of this so-called "wealth generation" somewhere else and share it. Way too much is focused on London already...do "we" really need London to be a "mega-city"?
Grumpy Anon | 01.08.14 - 10:42 a.m. | #
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@ Blue Witch - I'd be a bit more comfortable about the plans if there was a bit more coherence within the documents. Several of the suggested initiatives contradict each other for no good reason and they're not presented as alternatives. Further I am one of those tedious people who struggles to have confidence in documents like this when there are factual errors, poor spelling and other mistakes.
I know it's no longer the fashion to proof read documents before publishing them but how can City Hall publish important documents without properly checking them? If they can't get that right what faith can be placed in the contents of the documents or the intent behind them?
And none of the above is a swipe at Boris as he's simply the front man, others did the work and should be held to account for their sloppiness. There is a palpable lack of urgency, though, to some of the plans. It is ludicrous that the Bakerloo Line extension could take another 30 years to deliver. London can do much better than this and has done throughout the development of the tube network. The underlying assumption of "one big scheme at a time" is out of date and wrong.
PC | 01.08.14 - 11:00 a.m. | #
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What's nice is that very little of this will actually be needed.
That's because it's only a matter of a few years before advances in technology mean that physically transporting your tired carcass to a specific location just to do your job becomes obsolete.
Once 10 million or so people realise they don't actually all need to cram themselves into a couple of square miles at the same time every day just to sit at a computer, which they can do just as well from a cottage in Scotland or beach in Malta, London will start to look much as it did in 38 Days Later.
The whole concept of London as a desirable place to live is on very shaky ground. I say this as a Londoner.
Simon | 01.08.14 - 11:01 a.m. | #
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Hmm. They've been saying that about the death of the workplace for years. And to be honest, I'll believe it when I see it. I work for a large, multi-national technology based company. We have phones, we have VC, we have instant message systems, we have the works. Yet people are still flying around the world to meet other people. And teams still find it far easier to walk to someone's desk to ask them a question.
I work from home one day a week. I can do almost everything from home. But still there are some things - people based - that are far easier to do face to face.
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 11:12 a.m. | #
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No mention of upgrades to the two Northern Line Clapham stations that still have island platforms.
Too difficult, or just overlooked?
Chris Cook | 01.08.14 - 1:33 p.m. | #
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Having once been an Underground planner, EVERYTHING takes forever in terms of planning (getting the designs right and future-proofing as much as you can), legal (getting the Act of Parliament and/or planning consents), critical path planning, letting and vetting the contracts, then getting the contractors on site after all the permissions are in place.
Invariably, the surveyors missed or misinterpreted something, the legislators left out a couple of square inches of someone's land, or a contractor goes belly-up.
Oh silly me, I forgot, someone's got to pay for it too - that takes even longer than the rest put together, then 'we' have to be disingenuous about how much it costs and how good the 'cost-benefit' analysis is. So we tell you the price on present values and costs, not what we'll actually pay out, in instalments nor how the current prices are indexed on the construction industry scale, not RPI.
And by then, passenger numbers have rocketed, making trains and stations too small and us poor sods who did the genuine hard graft and tried to tell the truth get blamed, stitched-up, demoted (sorry, 'moved sideways') and lose significant career brownie points.
And sorry again - we we have to re-do some of the work 'cos to make the cost-benefit valid, someone cut corners, bought cheap kits which couldn't do the work and left others to pick up the pieces, sometimes literally.
As 'Mr Royle' says (almost) "one-point-three trillion - my @r$e!"
But of course, as DG says, we're dead and unable to defend what wasn't our cock-up. It's a grand life if you don't take it too seriously...
Joel | 01.08.14 - 3:08 p.m. | #
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errr, and when did the ebola-like epidemic strike that made all of the plans irrelevant?
B | 01.08.14 - 3:15 p.m. | #
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Dead by 2050? I'm hoping to get to be older than eighty five...
Sarah | Homepage | 01.08.14 - 3:17 p.m. | #
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@Sarah, I thought that sounded rather morbid, too. I think I'm about 20 years older than dg, and I'm (very optimistically) hoping to last till the 2040s.
amber | 01.08.14 - 3:57 p.m. | #
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This notion that "in a few years" ten million Londoners are going to pack up and move to a windswept moor at Back O' Beyond has been around for oh, forty years.
Wrong then and ludicrous now.
Stu | 01.08.14 - 4:00 p.m. | #
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@Sarah
By the time even the first of the major projects are finished I'll have a Freedom Pass and be able to use them for free. Yippee.
But long before XR3 opens I expect the only station I'd be fit for would be the one on Westminster Bridge Road which closed in 1940.
timbo | 01.08.14 - 4:40 p.m. | #
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@timbo - me too, but perhaps there will also be a Necropolis Railway 2 !
Bob Lindsay-Smith | 01.08.14 - 7:59 p.m. | #
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15 years to extend Tramlink is ludicrous, especially as they have clearly marked the extension to Sutton with 'Need clearly established'. There's a consultation happening in Merton and Sutton this week!
Here's a link with the dates if anyone is interested (it even has a low resolution but official looking TfL map)
Metrication | 01.08.14 - 8:44 p.m. | #
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I dare say DG has calculated his likely life-span in a thoroughly scientific manner. What can’t be foreseen, of course, is the development of some new wonder drug that will give him another 10 or even 20 years.
Great Aunt Annie | 02.08.14 - 12:39 a.m. | #
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OK folks. I've had the crazy crayons out and I've done a "Tube Map 2050" based on the document.
"London Infrastructure Plan 2050 Transport"
Would love to have your feedback!
Briantist | Homepage | 04.08.14 - 10:27 p.m. | #
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