please empty your brain below

there's an excellent feature film about a group of would-be taxi drivers taking The Knowledge, the Manor House to Gibson Sq route is mentioned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Knowledge_(film)

I love getting into a real "Black Cab" but it's a treat that only happens about once a year (if that) as I find the cost way above what I can justify, as for "Uber" its like a schoolkid doing an exam with all the answers written on a bright screen in front of them.
i feel an occasional series coming on....
What do taxi drivers do by way of updating their Knowledge, since points of interest come and go? A visitor with an old A-Z says "take me to the T&GW office" say - to find it's now a block of swanky flats.
Fascinating. I knew about "the knowledge" in theory, and often see the mopeds with clipboards. But this provides more perspective. I note that DG is carefully neutral about whether this system (unique, I think, to London), and its thereby amazingly well-informed cabbies (at least geographically) should be retained in the long term.

If "the market" gets its way, then black cabs will wither away, but if they are given some protection and extra privileges (like the right to get in the way of buses), then black cabs and the knowledge might still be around for a good few decades yet.

Although I have never used a black cab in London, I rather like the idea that they are there, and I could if I wanted to.
This didn't need a FOI request. A list of the the 320 runs (and suggested 'points') would have been available to anyone from one of the 'knowledge schools', one of which you mention.

The process is more involved than the list given. Each of the appearance stages 3,4, and 5 will be more than one interview. Stage 3 is called '56 days' The aim is to achieve a total of 12 points required to move onto the next stage.

dg writes: Post updated, thanks.

Candidates can score 6,4,3, or 0 points at each appearance (A,B,C, or D), with an A being virtually unheard of and Bs being of little use as one would need 3 successive Bs to progress quicker (unlikely). Most candidates are therefore aiming for Cs. It is of course possible not to score. If you do this too many times you get 'redlined' and put back to the previous stage.

Once you have accumulated your 12 points you move onto 28 days (appearances become more frequent). The aim is to score another 12 points and move onto '21 days'. So, if you're doing fairly well and score at every appearance you will attend 13 (including your final 'Req' where you are tested on the suburban runs).

'I wonder if drivers remember this every time they drive by' Yes, of course.

Manor House to Gibson Sq has been known to be asked on an appearance (without the traditional differing start and end points), but this is extremely rare.
This is such a quintessential DG post, I'm almost surprised we haven't seen this before. This is a fascinating bit of detail-- I knew broadly what the Knowledge entailed, but hadn't really thought about it like this.
If I were trying to get from Manor House station to Gibson Square I'd take the 341 bus, and walk the last 300m. Sorry cabbies.
One thing that this fascinating piece suggests is how ridiculous, in an age of much easily accessible information technology, a requirement for this qualification is. The memory requirement is up there with serious money-earning occupations without being especially well-paid. In addition black cabs are now, unlike cabs virtually anywhere else, beyond the price range of ordinary people who instead use either public transport or mini cabs and are treated to, by comparison, a service of very low quality. Since it would be possible for the authorities to digitalise all the necessary information, why not increase the requirement for decent vehicles, civility and general knowledge and open up the job to greater numbers and at a more affordable price. Then we could have more black cabs, lower prices, and fewer dodgy geezers driving around in clapped out mini-cabs.
as well as the film mentioned by amber above, there's a 1996 BBC documentary about the Knowledge which can be watched on iPlayer. I suspect not a lot has changed about the process in the last 20 years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007796l
That film mentioned in the first post was the first thing I thought of when I read this post.
In an age of SatNav, I think that it's just used as a hurdle to stop too many people applying for the job, plus it makes money.
Even with a depressed pound, London Taxi's are ridiculously expensive. Uber Mini cabs are far cheaper.
Blacks cabs are a huge rip off. They always were expensive but now it's a joke.

In the age of smartphones/GPS it is a redundant job. They took the p*ss far too long (which their prices and the fact they are allowed in bus lanes) and now they don't like it as their little monopoly has been broken.

Any idiot can drive and follow a GPS. Being a black cab driver is no special skill.
When I read pieces like this I feel sorry for the plight of the cabbies.

I think a lot of their fares are now only to be found in central London and rely on the fact that passengers can just flag one down when needed, or at the taxi stands outside tube stations and at Heathrow. It's still very much a tourist thing to ride in a cab, and then there are the moneyed who would think of using nothing else.

In the suburbs, it's generally easier to call Uber.

Amazing that anyone would put themselves through the Knowledge though. We had a neighbour doing it about ten years ago, and in the end he resorted to hypnosis to get him through it, as he kept getting so far and then crashing!
It worked, so more power to him!
Bravo dg
Antiquated outdated system.
Just as we no longer have lamplighters, firemen or typing pools, the reality is that Uber will replace black cabs.

But Uber's victory will be short lived because self-driving vehicles will then replace Uber...

Not sure whether this is good, bad or just different, but that's the way it's going to be.
The Knowledge, mentioned by Amber above, was shown on TV, rather than in the cinema. I still have it somewhere on VHS. It was written by the late Jack Rosenthal (aka Mr Maureen Lipman). It is a lovely piece of work, with a brilliant performance by Nigel Hawthorne as the sadistic examiner. One of the funniest scenes involves him sticking rolled up pieces of paper up his nose while the hapless knowledge boy is reciting his route, on the grounds that he must always be prepared to be distracted by his fare.
The latter part of the route you walked, DG, used to be a good rat run to get from Islington to Kings Cross avoiding the Angel.
When I first saw Manor House to Gibson Square, my first instinct was Highbury New Park. I probably wouldn't make the best cabbie (a quick Google search tells me it's speedbumps all the way).

I'd have probably gone 29 then 19 buses if asked to make this journey myself, though.
Mark my words; UBER and Garden Bridge corruption fraud about to be investigated along with the Disused Tube stations project in public inquiry led by me. NAO cooperation just now to gain KPMG Audit into Senior TFL Directors and their Ltd. companies in Guernsey, and associated bonus structures. Moving forward through corruption within TFL now. Just waiting to collect 20,000+ Black Cabbies on Twitter.
I'd have got the Tube.
Malcolm - the yellow cab drivers here in Derby say they have had to take a version of The Knowledge for the city, and apparently you'll find similar in other large cities. No way of verifying this, but I do know they don't use GPS.
As Gerry said at 11.26am cars will eventually be self driving,-as will trains.
Not sure how you would hail a driverless taxi cab and state your destination, probably have to do it via mobile network.
Some cabs could still have a person on board to assist fares with heavy luggage etc.
Great piece.

Entertainingly, I found a mistake in one of the suburban routes listed in the FOI release of the Blue Book.

Suburban Route 3 (p53 of the pdf) shows Enfield Town in two separate places on their schematic. In fact, the top right hand one should be Enfield Lock.

A small pedantic thing certainly, but probably something that should be right in a document like this!

The copyright is listed as 2013, so perhaps current ones correct it.
Definitely an occasional series! But poor old DG, not sure it would be possible in it's entirity!
I won't use Uber because of their scandalous treatment of drivers/non-worker drones (despite the court ruling). And as I'm in SE London where a cruising black cab is rarer than a hen's tooth it's my motor, public transport or shanks's pony!
Take the Picadily line To KXSP. Change onto Northern Line and to travel 1 stop to Angel then walk to Gibson square and if you are traveling alone save quite a bit of cash.
Manor House station to Gibson Square: (Citymapper estimates)

• Taxi: 12 mins, £12+
• Uber: 13 mins, £7-10

• Tube (to H&I, then walk): 22 mins, £1.70
• Tube (to Angel, then walk): 27 mins, £2.90
• Bus: 33 mins, £1.50

• Cycle: 23 mins, £0
• Walk: 54 mins, £0
In 1969 as I left school and began my first employment, my late Dad started on 'The Knowledge'. I sometimes went out with him on my trusty Honda 50 at weekends.

We did 'callovers' at home most evenings; either my Mum, younger brother or me picking a start point and a destination point within the six mile area, and Dad mentally navigating the route. That later progressed to strips of 'points' in two jam jars, pick one from each jar and do the mental route between them, while day after day moped-ing the streets with the Blue Book.

In 1969 you started on '28s' and none of the current points system - the 'Penton Street' interrogators passed you up to '14s' when they thought you were ready. If you were too clever, on your 'runs', such as showing off you knew which right turns weren't banned during weekdays, they held you back on the 'points'. Dad came home fuming from one session; he'd answered all four 'runs' he'd been asked, but then asked to identify "Alfie's Antiques Centre"... Which he couldn't - never heard of it but he always remembered it afterwards.

This is more than a tradition, it's one of London's uniquenesses. Taxi apps may be the dominant future, but they'll never replace the human element of the London Cabby, whether he or she agrees with your predjudices or not enroute.
Crikey, keep it light Ajit. This is like 1st April again.
"Manor House station to Gibson Square: "
How about Manor House to the nearest station - Essex Road - and then walk.

Or, given that Gibson Square is in gthe middle of a hole in the Tube network - Manor House to H&I and then taxi?
2.82 miles 19 minutes....by pedal cycle

dg writes: Sorry, forgot! Added now, thanks.
ops I kown someone who lives in Milner Square. Council flat property 3 bedrooms, one person, lets out a room. Comments on 'this is right'. Gibson Square was the subject of my university study on mental maps, how you see your neighbourhood.
I have great respect for black cabs - always use them when in London. Licenced - yes, safe- yes. OK you pay the extra but well worth it.
dg: "A London black cab driver is expected to know every street within six miles of Charing Cross"

If I get a black cab within 6 miles of Charing Cross, and the driver says he doesn't know the destination street, which is also within 6 miles of Charing Cross and a short drive away, should I be concerned? Also if I get a black cab near St Paul's to a destination within 6 miles of Charing X, and the driver spends the entire journey checking the route on his phone (not in a cradle, just in his hand or in his lap), should I be concerned?

Are there some black cabs where the drivers don't do the knowledge?
I have taken a black cab 4 times in my 10 years in London and the reasons were: first 3 times, moving house with 50kg of belongings, and 3rd time, at Hammersmith station with flight departing Heathrow in 40 minutes (the cabbie made it, and so did I, but I was too flustered and forgot to tip him)

I have never taken Uber and don't intend to; and I have hired a minicab about 3 or 4 times, when the tube fare for 4 people meant that a minicab was cheaper.
Those who say - just rely on satnav. You've never driven in central London - have you? The knowledge means cabbies know every possible route, and can adjust their route (based on knowledge of traffic conditions) to whatever is quicker at that moment. I've had private hire vehicles (relying on sat nav) just sit in congestion with no thought of alternate routes.
I just wish those cabbies with antediluvian attitudes (to customers / to cyclists / to the rest of the world) would wise up and realise they need to adapt, not constantly fight and protest.
@ Island Dweller

You need a satnav which is updated via the Digital 1 DAB radio network with live traffic information from Inrix. It will automatically plan the fastest route in real time. I've found mine invaluable when there's serious congestion.

Sounds like your private hire driver was a cheapskate who was relying on a dumb satnav.
My mobile phone has a satnav (from google maps) which tells you about traffic congestion - very useful this evening with the mayhem caused throughout SW London by the overturned lorry in the New Malden underpass (but unfortunatkey I only thought of resorting to it having already spent 40 minutes getting only halfway from Hampton Court to Hampton Wick.
Very interesting to see the process and the routes. I doubt I could remember the street names. I know the ones in the City where I was born but in London I am utterly dreadful on local street names. I know the main roads and the basic geography of the city - simply from using buses very extensively.

I suspect I could visualise the routes having done them and could probably relate them on a map. However the list of street names and turns would be beyond me. There's no doubt that gaining "the Knowledge" is a significant achievement. However I've only used a black cab twice in 30+ years and only one of those trips was my own choice because I was laden with luggage. Even then the first cab on the rank refused to take me as I was going to the suburbs - not impressed. The cost is the other factor that deters me from using taxis (and minicabs and Uber).
For people of a certain age, 'The Knowledge' will always mean Nigel Hawthorne, Michael Elphick and Mick Ford.

'Comply Highbury Corner!'
Still gets me when, outside London, you see black cabs with satnavs stuck to the window.

It does all seem rather a pointless skill though, although infinitely more pleasing than just blindly following a satnav (just thinking of my phone's sat nav app which once made me leave a motorway by a junction, and then rejoin the exact same motorway at the same junction.) Still, I regularly look around and wonder who is using black cabs. I think it was 2000 when someone from work suggested getting a cab in central London, and I don't recall ever doing it in the centre ever again.
> "infinitely more pleasing than just blindly following a satnav"

Not if you're the one paying while the meter spins as some obnoxious bigot drives you into the middle of nowhere then sheepishly asks "err...which way do you normally go from here guv?"

Based on actual experience rather than romantic mythologising of "London's Finest", I'm not convinced any of them have a great deal of "knowledge".

Times have changed: it's Uber every time from now on.










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