please empty your brain below

When you say the overall rise is 6\\%, how is calculated? A simple average, weighted average according to sales or some other means?

As an occasional visitor to London how can I, and all those valued tourists, avoid the exorbitant four quid tube fare. Is there a wonderful travel pass like they have in Amsterdam or Vienna for instance?

I think the users of public transport, who are subsidised by us car-drivers who have no choice (for reasons of geography and/or lack of service provision) but to pay thorugh the nose for the 'pleasure' of driving need to understand just how fortunate they are before they moan.

And don't even start me on free bus travel (or blanket heating allowances) for the over 60s. Some of the most well-off people in this country are being subsidised by the poorer - by and large, over 60s have paid off their mortgage, and while they may have reduced incomes, when you're not working, life costs a lot less.

Rick - for reduced fares, get an Oyster card - added bonus our Big Brother Governmint will then know exactly where you are at any time.

Rick: the whole point of the exorbitant cash fares is to get you to get a pass (travelcard) and use Oyster instead of cash.

And DG, the crucial phrase in Bojo's press announcement about the Freedom Pass is "Working with London boroughs the elderly will benefit through the extension of the Freedom Pass to 24hrs" - which looks to me like pre-emptive blame-shifting for if/when this doesn't happen.

They have to work with the Boroughs for the Freedom Pass. They're issued by the Boroughs and paid for by revenue collected by the Boroughs - usually out of parking and speeding fines. At least that was the case when I was involved - the fines were ring-fenced and could only be spent on transport-related costs, such as Freedom Passes, Dial-A-Ride, cycle paths etc. For all I know things might have changed

Personally, I can understand why BoJo and TfL have to increase bus and tube fares. In fact, I see it as the lesser of two evils - an extra pound or so on your tube fare, or a £25 per day congestion charge? I know which one I would prefer.

Of course, I would rather see fares not going up at all, but you can't have your own way all of the time.

Oh go on, reinstate the congestion charge, but under a different name. Sex it up so it comes across, at least at first reading, as a Good Thing.

Then go get a bus/use the tube! & you never know, it might become safer to cycle round the backstreets too. (Not that I'd ever dare try that.)

In fairness to Pippa she probably wouldn't have written the headline - a sub-editor would have done that.

Oh my god, I've just been fair to an ES journalist. It must be living out of London that does it.

To Rick - get a pay as you go oyster, you don't need to register it (if you're worried about that sort of thing), and you'll get your £3 deposit and any remaining cash back when you leave. In fact, even if you don't, it will have paid for itself with a single journey

"Do you not realise how lucky you are to live in a city with a cheap, extensive, accessible public transport network?"

I found this incredibly amusing. Here in New York, when people complain about our public transit, we often point to London as an example of an *expensive* public transport system. (The £4 cash tube fare helps to hammer this point home, even though I assume most people don't actually pay that much.)

Perhaps Pippa is a work experience student and will blame her shite maths on Labour government policies.


On second thought I doubt that any one called Pippa would have a state education.

For all the faults, line closures for endless maintenance and general creakiness in the level of service that beset London's travellers, they still have a level of service and integration in their transport system that would be greeted with rapturous applause around here.

Despite the patchy service offered by my local buses, prices have gone up several times in the last couple of years.

Of course none of this makes the crap press coverage about TfL's increases any better, but I feel better for having a small grumble. I'll shut up now.

I fully agree with BW that it's ridiculous to hand out freebies to people just because they're a certain age. In New Zealand there are various allowances and rebates available to pensioners but these are means-tested and have to be applied for.
(PS: I love the sound of blanket heating, although I feel I may have wilfully misinterpreted that bit...)

This is a rather simplistic view, and don't be too unkind on the Evening Standard when it's right. As this story:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/...chive/
7109.aspx


shows, Mayor Livingstone did *not* raise fares by inflation last year - Travelcards went up by approximately RPI, but all other fares were frozen - i.e. a real-terms cut in fares.

This doesn't let the current Mayor off the hook. Increasing the most expensive metro system in the world's prices above inflation during a time when price rises are hitting many consumers is surely something that journalists should question. It not unreasonable for people to hope that some of the inefficiencies the Mayor pointed to when standing for the role might be cut back to avoid such a fares hike.

Finally splitting the cost as only £12 per Londoner per year is also an odd way to look at it. If the government had a £700m deficit on a public project it wouldn't be unreasonable for people to be a bit shocked, even if this is less than £12 for every UK citizen.

Surely the Mayor should say what the extra money will be spent on, and make clear what is not being funded (and where the former mayor wasted the money that our new Mayor claims).

I think Ali's new here. Just a hunch.

"If tickets cost a pound apiece,
Why should you make a fuss?
It's worth it just to ride inside
That twenty-foot long by ten-foot wide
That big six-wheeler scarlet-painted
London Transport Diesel Engine
97-horse-power omnibus.

Hold very tight, please! (Ting! Ting!)"

Flanders and Swann

Jocelyn: as my girlfriend always used to explain, with a sigh, size matters -- the omnibus in question is actually thirty-foot long!

(Yes she is now an ex-girlfriend) (No, not for that reason) (And no, I've nothing to be shy about, as a matter of fact)

In Standard-land any time rail or bus fares increase they *always* 'soar'. It's a word no-one uses in speech, but the Standard loves it. And they can use it when the fares increases are announced and again when they come in.

July's RPI figure was released recently - 5\\%. It forms the basis for National Rail regulated January fares increases, which are allowed to be RPI+1\\%, so in this case 6\\%. Except within that, individual fares can be adjusted by +/-4\\%, so the maximum permitted increase is 10\\%, **provided the overall average increase is no more than 6\\%**. So if you increase some fares by 10\\%, you have to increase others by 2\\% to compensate.

How did the Standard report this? "RAIL FARES TO SOAR 10\\%"

Sorry DG, did you say "cheap" public transport? I have to agree with Josh that London's public transport is ridiculously expensive.

Here's a quick comparison of fares:

London's population of 7.35 million is almost double Melbourne's 3.8 million. However, the Melbourne metropolitan area covers 3400 sq miles (8806 sq km), while greater London is only 609 sq miles (1577 sq km). This means we have fewer people who have to go a lot farther (the suburban rail network extends as far as Frankston, 40km from the central business district).

Melbourne has only 2 fully integrated zones: the inner covers most of the tram network while zone 2 kicks in at about 10km. The MOST you can pay is $10.10 (4.60 quid) for zone 1 & 2 all day fare, while a 2-hour zone 1 ticket is $3.50 (1.60 pnds), and of course this doesn't include discount weekly/monthly/yearly or multiple fare tickets. We also have discount weekend fares that work out at $2.90 all day and both zones.

(details)

I think in this case Londoners DO have a case for a bloody good whinge.

Walker

Well, they would if they then didn't go and vote for arseholes like Boris.

Given that many transport links into London operate at or beyond capacity in the morning peak, what sense does it make giving the over-65s free 24hr travel? Most Railcard holders can't travel at a discount before 9:30 on weekdays, so why should all over-65s be able to do so for free?

Secondly, whilst I'm largely ambivalent towards TfL price increases (as I have a rail season ticket), could DG focus on excessive use of certain words - particular soar - in the less quality press?

Second on my most-hated list has to be slam - 'x slams y for z', but I sometimes wonder if that's just me...











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