please empty your brain below
Perhaps you looked like a bloke without a phone.

Gordon | 27.07.17 - 7:08 a.m. | #

I am normally bicycling these days and often use isolated cycle track/ paths. Occasionally I will encounter a group of loitering youths who will try and block my path. I have found the answer is to not slow down but head at speed toward them, they soon get out of the way.

Petty theft can occur in crowded places. I went to an ATM in Norwood once and did not notice the person in a telephone box near the machine. As soon as the cash was dispensed I had my head pushed forward the money grabbed and off he sped. He had been watching from the telephone box for the right time to pounce. This in a busy main road.

Another attempted theft from me took place on a crowded Hammersmith and City line train, as approaching a station group of youths surrounded me in the crush, tried my pockets and then fled at the station. They got nothing except my travelcard!

John | 27.07.17 - 7:19 a.m. | #

Perhaps they wanted to see if you were buying drugs, they seemed to be waiting for a particular person, four youths on bicycles could easily snatch phones on busy streets, rather than waiting for someone to walk down a footpath.

Still anon | 27.07.17 - 7:32 a.m. | #

My internal message is "be aware, always" - and you were. Predict, recognise and evaluate risk, and act accordingly.

Waterhouse | 27.07.17 - 7:35 a.m. | #

Yes, wise to do what you did. I'd also text a message to best mate that you're just entering the greenway/exiting the greenway next time you use it.

b | 27.07.17 - 7:59 a.m. | #

I read this with a sense of dread. You did the right thing and glad nothing happened. I think we all need to keep our wits about us but also not allow fear of crime to stop us doing the things we enjoy.

ganching | Homepage | 27.07.17 - 8:30 a.m. | #

Different scale but a group of yuffs once threw a half full cup of something liquid based from KFC at me. I shouted at them to throw another at me. Seemed to confuse them no end, although the true reasons as to why they scarpered away quickly on their bikes will remain with them.

Still there's something about doing the unexpected in situations like this. It confuses them no end. I have a couple of times confronted fare dodgers by congratulating them on how subtle they were. I have never tried it in a potential mugging although in heard of someone who did just start taking gibberish and that worked for them

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 27.07.17 - 9:01 a.m. | #

Did you report it to the police? While hanging around looking like you might mug someone isn't a crime in itself, the local officers might be interested to know what sort of time they ought to be in the area. I often see police on bikes around the Olympic Park, and the Greenway doesn't seem like it would be too far out their way to patrol.

(Of course, five years ago there was a bit more in the way of a security presence there.)

martin | 27.07.17 - 9:06 a.m. | #

I was cycling with a girl in Italy but we were walking our bikes along the promenade at the time. The coastal resort out of season was something like a deserted town in a western. Out of nowhere a car consisting of four youths came up and they started making enforced conversation in what appeared to us in a very aggressive way.

We chatted to them (in English) feeling none to comfortable about the situation but also feeling powerless to do otherwise. It slowly started to dawn on me that one of them was disabled and the others were attempting to bring him into the conversation. In retrospect I thought they were just trying to do their friend a favour and getting him to meet people but it was very scary nevertheless.

Pedantic of Purley | 27.07.17 - 9:09 a.m. | #

martin,

Did you report it to the police?
My thoughts as well but I bet I know the answer.

While hanging around looking like you might mug someone isn't a crime in itself

Well actually it is if the behaviour causes alarm, harassment or distress. It can hardly be considered normal behaviour.

So being on the Greenway as such is not an offence but as soon as someone feels threated by it then it is an office. Section 5, Public Order Act 1986.

It gets more serious still if the individuals intended to cause alarm, harassment or distress but that has to be proved.

Pedantic of Purley | 27.07.17 - 9:17 a.m. | #

I'm glad it turned out well in the end. In situations like that it's difficult to make a snap judgement in a few seconds whether to risk losing face by turning around or to brazen it out.

I recall walking through a pitch black underpass many years ago. At the last minute I noticed a group of hooded youths standing in it. Too late to turn around I thought, so just strode straight through. Luckily nothing happened but my heart was in my mouth for a bit..

Adrian | 27.07.17 - 10:06 a.m. | #

"As for the extra footsoldier he'd disappeared, which was odd given there were no exits"

If you're at the start of the Greenway at Stratford High Street looking towards the direction Plaistow, isn't there an exit going down to the right (towards Abbey Lane)?

I had a very scary attempted mugging in that spot a few years back. A late afternoon in summer.

langdon | 27.07.17 - 10:10 a.m. | #

Scary. Possibly a dry run or experiment but that doesn't make it any nicer.

Half a physicist | 27.07.17 - 11:18 a.m. | #

You trusted your instinct, simples!

Ken | 27.07.17 - 11:20 a.m. | #

It's possible you were just a bystander to a tense interaction between the group of three teenagers and the fourth who were eyeing each other up and thought they might be a threat to each other. Young people tend to be much more vulnerable to and aware of this type of violence and intimidation.

James | 27.07.17 - 11:24 a.m. | #

Youths covering their faces with bandanas = up to no good in my book!
Why else would they do it? Even if it's only not to be recognised by a rival gang, the potential for ugliness is so much greater.
You did the right thing by turning back. Better safe than sorry.

Being female, groups of loitering youths always make me feel uneasy, but these days I worry more for my kids (aged 16-23) as there are so many unprovoked attacks on young people in my area as compared to even 5 years ago.

Cornish Cockney | 27.07.17 - 11:27 a.m. | #

Even an email to your local copshop with a link to this post might connect your experience with that of someone else so I would say report if you've not already done so. If they are opportunists in wait then you might prevent them succeeding.

I really liked some public signs I saw in a Glasgow park - to the effect "Please keep your distance and be aware that your seemingly innocent actions may make others feel unsafe".

Though given the attire you describe, this is precisely the effect they desired. Dickheads.

drD | Homepage | 27.07.17 - 11:48 a.m. | #

DG: Thanks for the "spoiler" at the beginning, saying that it ends well. Without that, the tale might have been even more engaging, but your many friends here would each have several minutes of uncomfortable reading.

Sadly, occasional issues of this kind seem to be an unavoidable side-effect of living in a city - but fortunately offset (at least for many) by city-living's many benefits.

Malcolm | 27.07.17 - 11:50 a.m. | #

I would say call the police and report your fears but nowadays you would probably get a letter a week later saying sorry nobody available to deal with it.

Colininthailand | 27.07.17 - 11:59 a.m. | #

I was once attacked by a group, two months later, I saw one of my attackers, he was on a bike I was in a car........ 70 mph rights a lot of wrongs.

Anon | 27.07.17 - 12:31 p.m. | #

...and creates new ones, you idiot.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 27.07.17 - 12:40 p.m. | #

The "... please keep your distance ..." sign is very much to the point.

Am I seeing things, or are people becoming less able to determine what is an appropriate distance from someone?

In the last couple of years I have experienced half-a-dozen incidents of that type (through cluelessness, not malicious intent) but had barely experienced any before then. In one case a person walked two or three paces behind me for several hundred yards down a road then, when I turned round, acted as though I was about to stab them ...

dezincify | 27.07.17 - 12:41 p.m. | #

Strangely, I had a vaguely similar experience on Tuesday, after I left the car on the top floor of a decked car park. It was dark when I returned around 9.45pm and as I headed for the nearest staircase I noticed three lads sitting on the relatively narrow steps blocking the way. They weren't scruffy or threatening, not even smoking or drinking, but it just seemed slightly odd.

I could have carried on to the other staircase but I felt that would have been a bit wimpish, and if they had evil intent it would have signalled that I was nervous. So I just strode up the stairs and they moved out the way quite apologetically. 'No problem' I said and that was that, the non-event was over.

I wonder whether the fourth lad merely sped up a bit so as not to invade your personal space and relaxed a bit when he was a comfortable distance away? Perhaps he looked back because he felt the same as you and wanted to keep an eye on the dodgy trio? But you were right to follow your instinct.

Gerry | 27.07.17 - 1:07 p.m. | #

Bloody hell dg.

I'm glad you followed your instincts and changed your route and that you're ok.

I agree, this should be reported.

Glad to be able to read about this on your blog and not in the press. I remember only too well how nervous we all were last year when you didn't post until much later- deliberately.

Rob Healy | 27.07.17 - 1:19 p.m. | #

I suspect you and I have a very different perception of risk, Rob.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 27.07.17 - 1:35 p.m. | #

DG, really pleased no harm but slightly disappointed given your usual acute perceptiveness: no comments about approximate age (teenagers covers a widish range!), height, colour/race, specifics about the bikes etc, to warn others. Were they that well covered and everything else was totally anonymous?

On your side | 27.07.17 - 1:39 p.m. | #

Talking about perceptions, I now recall how, unwittingly, I once caused the fear.

My partner was walking a couple of paces ahead of me. I picked up quite a large stick to throw for the dog. Just as I was about to throw it, a woman a few yards in front of my partner turned around. Judging by her expression she was convinced that she was imminently about to witness a woman being given an almighty whack on the head.

Pedantic of Purley | 27.07.17 - 2:03 p.m. | #

"But then the fourth lad turned round and looked behind him. This seemed an odd thing to do, particularly when he did it again"

Perhaps he was worried that you were the acomplice and you were going to help mug him. Who knows what their positions were?

The question remains is that if they were up to anything why did they do nothing and ride off. Do you look like a 17 stone hairy builder or like a beggar with nothing?

Agent Z | 27.07.17 - 2:39 p.m. | #

"if ... why did they do nothing and ride off?"

If they were typical male teenagers they may have had no fixed, discussed plan. They may have just been lurking on the edge of aggressive behaviour, with apparently random factors (such as DG's chosen response) ready to tip them into action or not.

There are many other possibilities, but DG's response may have saved him from the attack which he (reasonably, in my view) half-feared.

Malcolm | 27.07.17 - 4:31 p.m. | #

Well done DG. Always keep your radar on. Missed being unintentionally involved in many a pub fight by moving from a table a minute or so earlier.

Mugging is a truely horrible crime and of so little reward to the perpetrators.

Do the mainly juveniles involved feel remorse and shame in latter life. I hope so.

chicker | 27.07.17 - 8:26 p.m. | #

I was once followed along the Greenway by a sinister monk.

Greg | 27.07.17 - 10:36 p.m. | #

That's a truly frightening story DG and glad that it ended well. However from the other comments it seems like this is not an isolated occurrence on the Greenway.

The Greenway users have done a lot to try to improve safety on this Thames Water permissible pathway by pushing for installation of lighting and CCTV to discourage anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. Your article reminds us that we still need to be vigilant and have our wits about us despite these measures.

The Ridgeway, south of the river shares many features with the Greenway, unfortunately including being a haven for criminal activity. We are working towards the installation of lighting to discourage this but as the recent pictures show the Ridgeway is also far from being a safe place after dark.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RidgewayUsers/permalink/484820395243322/?hc_location=ufi

I wondered if there was any way that we could work together with Thames Water, the Police, the local councils and TFL to develop a joint safety strategy for both permissible pathways before someone gets seriously hurt.

Ridgeway Users | Homepage | 28.07.17 - 12:09 a.m. | #

@ Ridgeway Users

You need a site that is not restricted to people who have sold their soul to Facebook !

Gerry | 28.07.17 - 12:16 a.m. | #

"I read this with a sense of dread."

"I would say call the police and report your fears."

"Bloody hell dg. I'm glad that you're ok."

"That's a truly frightening story DG."

But nothing happened.

What very different views we all share.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 28.07.17 - 12:24 a.m. | #

@Gerry

We have these social media alternatives

https://twitter.com/ridgewayusers

https://www.meetup.com/Ridgeway-Users-Group

Or you can just email us - [email protected]

Ridgeway Users | Homepage | 28.07.17 - 12:32 a.m. | #

Glad you kept yourself out of trouble (even if there may never have been any trouble to be in).

My local council switches off the streetlights after midnight. It is not too bad if the moon is out, but walking home from the station on a moonless night along pitch black streets is an interesting experience.

Andrew | 28.07.17 - 8:03 a.m. | #

I used to live near a river path that was unlit. It was always fun walking down it late at night. But actually I preferred it unlit. There were lots of spaces someone could hide if they wanted (and in 12 years there I never heard of anything happen) but the lack of streetlights meant your eyes adjusted and you had better visibility of the surrounding areas. Streetlamps are great for illuminating certain areas. And great at creating shadows for people to hide in...

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 28.07.17 - 9:08 a.m. | #

I tend to blunder on regardless in those cases. Not foolish bravery, but just inured to the risk after living in so-called "bad" parts of town for many years and having bugger-all happen to me. Worst case, you have to buy a new phone and you're out whatever small amount of cash you have on you. Which is really no big deal. Not enough to spend my life living in fear, at any rate. That's not to say I wouldn't shy away from a dark alley full of angry-looking people at 2am, just that the chances of an open, public place proving to be dangerous to a random stranger are slim.

Chz | 28.07.17 - 10:24 a.m. | #

Very sensible. Your mother would be proud of you. I am pleased you survived to tell the tale. It makes us all just a little more aware, without being scared.

Sally Hirst | 28.07.17 - 10:20 p.m. | #

It is easy to scare people unintentionally. I was once walking the bit of the London Loop near Barnet, and realised that I was close behind a young woman in rather a deserted part of the path. I sped up and went past her, so she wouldn't think I was following her. Unfortunately, my bootlace then came undone, and while I was kneeling down to tie it up, she came past me again, looking very uneasy. I suppose I could have said something, but thought that might just make things work, so I decided just to wait for a while until she was well away from me. It's easy to get yourself into a state about other people's intentions, but sometimes it's wise.

Baldassaro | 01.08.17 - 10:14 a.m. | #

If you ever encounter anyone along there peering into the Channelsea River through binoculars, or trying to photograph Dragonflies, you will be able to add another ‘interesting’ folk category to your list – weirdo urban naturalist. And it will probably be me. Mind you, I’m usually there in the early morning.

Stephen Harris | 01.08.17 - 4:32 p.m. | #

Hooded scarved group of four with mountain bikes...reads awfully similar: http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2017/08/cyclists-attacked-by-armed-robbers-near-hackney-canal/

commonliner | 08.08.17 - 9:31 a.m. | #











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