please empty your brain below
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What about the Finchley Road to Harrow and Harrow to Moor Park peak hours fast trains?
dg writes: 611 and 487 seconds respectively. I decided against including these as they're not adjacent stations.
Robert Butlin | 17.04.20 - 7:09 a.m. | #
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Being most familiar with the northern end of the Piccadilly line, I'm surprised that Southgate:Arnos Grove features. It doesn't seem that long, maybe because it is partially above ground. Unlike say Manor House to Turnpike Lane which always feels interminable.
Frank F | 17.04.20 - 7:22 a.m. | #
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The issue with Southgate - Arnos Grove is often being held outside Arnos Grove awaiting a platform, also driver changes are normally here too, the time may be padded to reflect this.
Still Anon | 17.04.20 - 7:36 a.m. | #
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Checking the data, Southgate to Arnos Grove is 215 seconds but Arnos Grove to Southgate is only 166 seconds, almost 50 seconds shorter!
I've removed it as being unrepresentative.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 17.04.20 - 8:33 a.m. | #
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While wondering if there was anything between Mile End and Stratford where a station might fill the gap (answer : not really) I came across the old Bow Road railway station. Did you ever do an article on that, as I'm guessing it may be quite local to you?
Ian | 17.04.20 - 9:02 a.m. | #
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The north curve may be rarely used but it is earning its keep right now - the Chesham service is running to Watford rather than London, meaning Croxley is one of the few stations anywhere to have a better Covid-19 service (6tph) than it gets in normal times (4tph).
Nico | 17.04.20 - 9:36 a.m. | #
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As someone who occasionally has to deal with them, I would note that FOI responses aren't required to be helpful. If the information is held it has to be supplied, but there is no obligation to do extra work if it is held for a purpose other than the one the requester wants it for and so isn't in the format they would like. As an aside, there are many cases where a different approach such as to a publicity/PR department explaining why the information is being asked for would get a better answer than a formal FOI request.
Ralph Ayres | 17.04.20 - 9:54 a.m. | #
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I wonder if the top 2 shortest positions will be reversed when the Piccadilly Line gets new trains and signalling with ATO, as that should speed it up a bit.
Mikey C | 17.04.20 - 10:40 a.m. | #
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Having lived in both SW and NW London during my lifetime it's good to see the exact timings. I usually reckon on about 20 mins from Harrow to Baker Street.
Northfields to South Ealing is a laugh. Being above ground you can see the front of the train pulling into the next station almost before the back has left the previous!
Cornish Cockney | 17.04.20 - 10:49 a.m. | #
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Ralph has said much of what I was going to say. There is a limit to the obligations of any organisation with regards the time and money they are required to spend on researching and providing replies to FOI requests. A few minutes spent on a keyboard can result in hours of work for an organisation trying to produce results in the format and detail asked for. I have been on the receiving end of such requests for road traffic collision data, and whilst one wants to be helpful (as a public servant), there are limits to what you can practically and reasonably provide
MO | 17.04.20 - 10:51 a.m. | #
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I would add interchange times at Waterloo and City. If you are interchanging Bank W&C to DLR you need to add nearly 10 minutes for being currently being diverted above ground along King William St.
davews | 17.04.20 - 10:56 a.m. | #
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Dear DG
Your work so your rules, and it is adjacent stations.
But the longest journey, in time terms, it is possible to make on the London Underground (subject to there being no delays) is Finchley Road to Harrow on the Hill (611 seconds). I'm sure there used to be trains that missed out Harrow on the Hill (Finchley Road to Moor Park), so at one point there would have been an even longer journey.
Robert Butlin | 17.04.20 - 11:00 a.m. | #
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Re the W&C that definitely rings true as a daily commuter (not right now of course!). The scissors crossovers add a bit of time coming into/out of the platform (basically delaying the point at which the driver (W&C is not ATO) can start seriously accelerating), which gives a time penalty for arriving p7 and departing p8. My westbound journey is probably roughly about even between under 4 minutes and over 4 minutes, whereas my eastbound one is almost always over 4 minutes (the only time it isn't is when we arrive onto p8 and have a clear run, which in practice usually means off-peak).
However of course in the morning peaks these days they only use p7, despite the time penalty on arrival. It's actually interesting to see that this is outweighed by the time penalty on departure from p8 so perhaps this is the reason. But my main hunch (and one that I think is borne out through practical experience) is that this is actually down to platform capacity. p7 simply clears more quickly than p8 due to being wider and less obstructed - this means the train clears more quickly and so (with stepping back in place, as it is during the peaks) can depart more quickly. Commonly if we stop at more than one red signal in the morning peak it will be because p8 is in use.
Muzer | 17.04.20 - 11:37 a.m. | #
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I was going to look at the data, but after another Microsoft update my laptop looked at the zip file and glared at me.
It might be worth cross checking Finsbury Park - Seven Sisters and Hampstead - Golders Green against the times in the opposite direction.
dg writes:
Finsbury Park-Seven Sisters: no change
Golders Green- Hampstead: 30 secs quicker
Some of the other Northern Line times may also have issues, for example towards Finchley Central there is the time for the junction for Mill Hill East, but towards East Finchley there is another junction for Highgate depot plus driver changes, also there is another junction approaching Camden that may be less restrictive than leaving Camden.
On the Metropolitan I'd have thought Finchley Road to Baker Street would be longer as you'd be more likely awaiting a platform at Baker Street.
Barking - East Ham are both 183? H&C trains have a head start and don't need to climb the flyover, also Aldgate East - Liverpool Street and Gloucester Road - High St Ken are crossing more lines than they are in the opposite direction, so may be allowed more time.
Still Anon | 17.04.20 - 11:37 a.m. | #
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Your Central Line 'longest' heading is in Bakerloo brown.
Well, I know I'd want to be told if it were me :-)
dg writes: Fixed, thanks.
Sarah | Homepage | 17.04.20 - 11:39 a.m. | #
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On overall times, Waterloo to Bank is in Victoria blue. Should it be W&C Teal?
Might just be my screen I guess!
dg writes: It should, but then it would be unreadable against the grey background so it isn't.
Mikey | 17.04.20 - 11:49 a.m. | #
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Proving again that computer driven Northern Line trains accelerate/brake better than human driven Piccadilly line trains.
(A brilliant side fact: The journey time for a Morden to Edgware train used be be 81 minutes back in the 1980's and even the 1990's. Now with the trains being driven by computer that time has been reduced to 70 minutes - 11 minutes faster, a few seconds for each station)
Geofftech | 17.04.20 - 12:08 p.m. | #
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Geofftech: In my opinion, any decent Train Operator could drive a train just as well as one driven by ATO and in the case of the Northern line, a hell of a lot smoother!
On my line, it looks like humans will continue to drive them for years and years to come as there certainly won't be any money in TfL's coffers to pay for the signalling upgrade that was postponed before any of this happened. Just on the Southgate to Arnos Grove differential, on the WB, we have a number of speed controlled signals that slow us down significantly in this direction.
I'm out on the line tonight so may do my own timings :-)
PiccDriver | 17.04.20 - 1:52 p.m. | #
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I've long been fond of telling people that the longest Underground train ride that is actually entirely underground is Mile End to Stratford. It looks like my original source for the info must have been pre-Heathrow expansion.
Stephen Harris | 17.04.20 - 2:04 p.m. | #
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> the longest journey (Chesham to Chalfont & Latimer) is exactly fourteen times longer than the shortest
To be picky, it's fourteen times _as long_. Fourteen times _longer_ would be 8m 45s.
Andrew | 17.04.20 - 6:33 p.m. | #
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When visiting London for the first time, in our ignorance we caught the train from Charing Cross to Embankment. It looked a fair distance on a map.
Andrew | Homepage | 18.04.20 - 4:27 a.m. | #
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The thing with Northfields to South Ealing is that the station entrances are at the 'far ends' of the platforms. So while the distance between platform ends is about 262m, the distance between the station entrances is a more respectable 585m.
straphan | 18.04.20 - 10:07 a.m. | #
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Bakerloo to Charing Cross is longer than Northern because it actually goes to Trafalgar Square. It must be time to restore the name of that station and no longer represent it as an interchange, which only happened due to the demised white elephant Jubilee terminus.
kev | 18.04.20 - 12:24 p.m. | #
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Stephen Harris: Mile End to Stratford isn't entirely underground: the Central Line platforms at Stratford are above ground.
Nottingham nit-picker | 18.04.20 - 5:18 p.m. | #
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A fully-credited cut-and-paste from MyLondon
https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/shortest-longest-times-between-stops-18128191.amp
diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.04.20 - 7:49 a.m. | #
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This came up on my phone feed this morning. I was glad to see it appropriately credited as 'the wizardry of the diamond geezer blog'.
MO | 23.04.20 - 11:57 a.m. | #
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