please empty your brain below
Hurray for Woolwich market. Managed to get our veg there a few days ago when the shelves were bare elsewhere.

H SE18 | 30.03.20 - 7:33 a.m. | #

Today on Diamond Geezer: DG live blogs the Middle Ages

Jonathan P | 30.03.20 - 8:00 a.m. | #

When you're allowed to travel again a trip to Kings Lynn (maybe a series on day trippable termini towns) could be in order, a market town with two market charters - Tuesday and Saturday.

dg writes: Visited Feb 2016.

Putters | 30.03.20 - 8:24 a.m. | #

Kingston used to have a cattle market on Mondays. As a child I used to go there to watch the animals being sold.
Livestock sales probably stopped in the late 1950's and it continued as a general market every Monday I do not think that continues now.
There is a car park and bus stand where the cattle market was and if you look on google maps you will find it named as the cattle market car park.

There is of course another separate small daily market in Kingston which still operates.

John | 30.03.20 - 9:16 a.m. | #

I was enjoying reading this, looking forward to the bit about my nearest one (Brentford) only to discover that you ran out of steam. I hope that you do come back to this sometime. Thanks.

Dave | 30.03.20 - 9:49 a.m. | #

Romford market has reduced in size, has probably less that 100 stalls, the shopping hall has loads of empty units, it has more cafes than other types of retailers.

Robert | 30.03.20 - 9:50 a.m. | #

So much interesting stuff here. With pictures too.
I was curious about the fact that your ring comprises 12 towns (including Epping and Watford) whereas the geometrical expectation would be six - the number of points on the plane equidistant from each other and a central point. This immediately suggests that there should also be an inner ring of six further market towns. I'd look for them at points equidistant from a pair of yours and Westminster - e.g. Muswell Hill. Produces 12 candidates, then select 6 of them.
I suspect that the real history may fail to line up with my theory.

Malcolm | 30.03.20 - 10:09 a.m. | #

There is still a market every Monday on the Kingston Cattle Market site, next to the Fairfield bus station. The site is used as a car park the rest of the week. As you say, this is separate from the 7 days a week market near the parish church.

Timbo | 30.03.20 - 10:10 a.m. | #

The market information is great, and once again I learnt a great deal, but it has to be said, the final paras are even better. Inspired!

Stuart | 30.03.20 - 10:16 a.m. | #

nice post DG. such a rich subject with your pointers for further exploration most illuminating. It brings back memories of entertaining Costers working until quite recently.

the other eric | 30.03.20 - 10:57 a.m. | #

fascinating
I'm very intrigued by the distance of 6⅔ miles. You say that's the furthest you were allowed to drive sheep in one day, as well as the minimum distance apart of the markets.
Why ??

Caz | 30.03.20 - 12:14 p.m. | #

As well as the livestock market and the current market Kingston also had the Apple Market - the lane which carries the name is adjacent to the main market square (or triangle!)

Jona26 | 30.03.20 - 12:48 p.m. | #

Finished.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 30.03.20 - 1:00 p.m. | #

Caz, I found this reference by Tom Cleaver relating to the reason for 6 2/3 miles.

"The standard reasoning behind this rule is first found in Bracton’s De Legibus: since a market-goer can walk 20 miles in a day, and requires a third of the day to reach the market, a third to trade, and a third to return home, 6⅔ miles represents the longest distance he can travel to market."

cliffh | 30.03.20 - 1:01 p.m. | #

Also just outside the boundary, but St Albans has had its own market since at least the 950s, when it was under the control of the Abbey. After the dissolution, a charter was granted to the town in 1553. There was a cattle market in St Peter's Street until the 1920s, and then in Drovers Way nearby until the 1970s, now the site of a multi-storey car park.

Andrew | 30.03.20 - 1:14 p.m. | #

Cheam claims an annual charter market/fair from the 13th century, though a cursory google suggests that researchers haven't been able to find evidence of it prior to the 1800s, and that it has been close to being abolished about once every 30 years

One of the Philips | 30.03.20 - 1:46 p.m. | #

This morning I started reading 'Greater London: The story of the suburbs' (Nick Barrett) and had reached page 41 which describes the royal grants to establish markets. Then, when taking a break for lunch, I check your blog for the first time today... Beyond spooky!

Frank F | 30.03.20 - 1:51 p.m. | #

Kingston Market has never recovered from the refurb. The fancy new stalls which only feature in your links rather than the main blog photo were not money well spent. Most days there are fewer than half a dozen proper market stalls. It's a great shame Britain alone in Europe seems incapable of keeping most of its markets going properly.

PS I remember when there were still stalls in "Apple Market" some days!

ap | 30.03.20 - 1:59 p.m. | #

Has'd. Ingenious!

Harry Harrison | 30.03.20 - 4:29 p.m. | #

Kingston Market's new stalls are at least better looking than the previous ones which looked like lock-up garages and were graffiti magnets. There was some controversy over the non-renewal of some of the long standing traders as not being food-related. I had to junk a perfectly good vacuum cleaner as one of those stalls was my only source of bags for it. (He did sell other things too.....!)

Timbo | 30.03.20 - 5:25 p.m. | #

Once upon a time...and hitherto....

B | 30.03.20 - 6:15 p.m. | #

I can just about remember a cattle market in Watford behind what I think was the Telephone Exchange in Market Street. As a child I was always amazed that cattle were allowed into a built- up town centre. My mother before she died in 2015 always used the general market in the town rather than the ordinary shop. Said it was the best place to buy goods in Watford. The market has now been down graded and covered over much to the annoyance of the market traders. Not nearly as good as it used to be.

Tones | 30.03.20 - 7:33 p.m. | #

Fascinating. My late father would recall watching cattle being driven up Clarendon Rd to the Watford Market when at Gartlett School, and the glee of seeing a small workman's hut being trampled to firewood.

NickK | 30.03.20 - 7:44 p.m. | #

I'm old enough to also remember the cattle and sheep in Watford Market. I can almost smell it too.

DGD | 30.03.20 - 9:16 p.m. | #











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