please empty your brain below
The Superloop 2 maps suggests a route shadowing the existing 65. I can't see it being much faster than the exiusting route given the narrow roads it will have to follow - it will just get stuck behind the existing 65s - and will not be an improvement if it simply means the 65 is reduced in frequency. It will simply mean that all the buses will take the same time, but half of them won't serve my stop!

Timbo | 19.04.24 - 11:33 a.m. | #

I absolutely love that the superloop map is starting to look like a roundel.

I hope SL12 will end up following the route of the 2015 express buses from Walthamstow to Stratford from when the Victoria line was closed for a whole month for engineering works. That was a very quick service and followed Orient Way, alongside the Eurostar depot, to avoid the Leyton traffic.

Dan | 20.04.24 - 7:22 a.m. | #

The Nomenclature Committee blogpost is still my favourite thing you’ve ~ ever ~ written in the 16 years that I’ve been DG’d.

Now then. How about a Superloop 3 which is one bus that just goes round the M25 all day? ( I’ll save that idea for an April Fool’s video )

Geofftech | 20.04.24 - 7:34 a.m. | #

Good luck with any speed at all to the SL17 on the South Circular through Sheen!

Artie | 20.04.24 - 8:02 a.m. | #

As someone who regularly used the X26 to get from Croydon to Heathrow, and greatly appreciates the improvement in service of the SL7 early mornings it does not seem much of an improvement making us all change at Sutton. In particular as the SL5 is single deck and has no provision for luggage. I would say, from my observation, that the bus is about a quarter/third full will airport travellers by the time we get to Sutton. (more on the pre 6.00 journeys).

Sadly as tap-in on buses tells you where people board, but not where they alight I wonder if the TfL boffins fully understand this.

Keith the Kraut | 20.04.24 - 8:36 a.m. | #

The "SL20" is sort of parallel to the planned West London Orbital, I wonder if that's intentional.

TW | 20.04.24 - 8:54 a.m. | #

Has TfL released any data to show demand on Superloop? They must deem it a success if they are planning an expansion

David | 20.04.24 - 9:02 a.m. | #

It does make me chuckle at the number at the meetings I was in with TfL (both when I worked there but also at London boroughs) where we wanted limited stop bus services but the TfL bus team were adamant they wouldn’t do it. So good to see a change in view.

David | 20.04.24 - 9:11 a.m. | #

The SL18 could be useful if it goes via Twickenham rather than Petersham. Less congested, so faster, and it would provide a useful link between Kingston and Twickenham (more direct than the slow and circuitous 281, which still follows the route of the tramlines that were dug up in 1932)

Timbo | 20.04.24 - 9:21 a.m. | #

And of course no east-west radial from central London to Heathrow (mirroring the N9, and sort of mirroring the old dedicated service run by BOAC/BA from up the road) because
a) that would duplicate and abstract too much PAYG revenue from Picc/Lizzie and
b) National express (and any other operator of express bus on the route) would moan too much about undercutting

MilesT | 20.04.24 - 9:32 a.m. | #

Still a long way from my dream of an orbital railway line inside the M25 linking all the towns on the edge of Greater London, including Heathrow.

Keith | 20.04.24 - 9:45 a.m. | #

And all so depressingly feeble compared with the scale of investment in our nearest counterpart, Paris: 50% increase in the size of the Metro, well on the way to completion.

PhilSW11 | 20.04.24 - 9:58 a.m. | #

Can only add mine to voices saying that severing the direct link between Croydon and Heathrow would be misguided (obviously DG is the correct forum to make this complaint). Very excited for an express 97, ideally one that goes through Leyton as people do actually live there.

Alfie | 20.04.24 - 10:13 a.m. | #

TfL do only know where people board buses not where they get off, but they then do a lot of analysis of future taps (next bus boarded or station entered) to get a fair idea of where the previous journey ended. Not a complete picture but probably enough for planning purposes.
(and don't worry privacy fans, it's all anonymised!)

Andrew S | 20.04.24 - 10:48 a.m. | #

If this plan comes into fruition you'll be able to ride the whole A406 on buses haha

D | 20.04.24 - 11:10 a.m. | #

You will not be able to ride the whole A406 on buses.

A N Expert | 20.04.24 - 11:45 a.m. | #

I see from some of the comments that some people have been up all night with the crayons.

mclm | 20.04.24 - 11:48 a.m. | #

I would have found Streatham to Eltham fantastic in the 1980s for commuting, saving a journey to either London Bridge or Crystal Palace! How did I manage to be on the scene 42 years too early?

cau1khead | 20.04.24 - 1:15 p.m. | #

David - The Superloop buses ( and name) isn’t a TfL thing, its a Mayoral thing. They have pushed it through and forced it to happen.

AndrewD | 20.04.24 - 2:23 p.m. | #

Any "express 97" will fail because Hoe Street is a massively congested two-lane road and there is no alternative that doesn't miss out the big demand points.

Phil E | 20.04.24 - 2:34 p.m. | #

Thamesmead to North Greenwich via Woolwich was part of a proposed bus rapid transit scheme (Greenwich Waterfront Transit) when Ken Livingstone was Mayor. It was dropped, along with a number of other transport schemes, when Boris Johnson became Mayor.

Malc M

Malc M | 20.04.24 - 3:36 p.m. | #

Excellent news! I'm very excited especially as my areas will be very well served!

Cornish Cockney | 20.04.24 - 6:42 p.m. | #

Keith, TfL has recently put out a tender for passenger counters which will enable them to see where people alight, amongst other things. It's only a trial but hopefully it'll lead to something.

David, a Superloop Review is pencilled in for June on TfL Board documents so hopefully we'll see the numbers then.

matthieu1221 | 20.04.24 - 7:58 p.m. | #

Matthieu, on the Elizabeth Line today there was a team of researchers asking each passenger where they boarded, where they were planning to get off, and what type of ticket they were using.

Artie | 20.04.24 - 8:43 p.m. | #

Superloop 2: Bus Boogaloo

ian | 21.04.24 - 12:36 a.m. | #

Artie, they do something similar on the buses currently. I may not have been clear enough but the passenger counters will not be human in form, it's tech they are tendering for.

matthieu1221 | 21.04.24 - 1:31 a.m. | #

So, as well as having more TfL Rail (Underground, Overground and Elizabeth Line), with the corresponding higher service levels and cheaper fares, North London will have more Superloop, with the corresponding shorter journey times and better connections, than South London, too.

Hmmm.

Betterbee | 21.04.24 - 3:52 a.m. | #

North London also has 2 million more population than South London, so maybe stop Hmmmming.

Worsewasp | 21.04.24 - 8:00 a.m. | #

ian - shouldn't it be:
Superloop 2: Electric Bus-aloo

TW | 21.04.24 - 8:30 a.m. | #

The Bakerloop-might-be-numbered-SL15 has the potential of being either the most inspirational BUT shortest lived of the Superloops (dead after the Bakerloo extends)......or the longest lived, but most disappointing ("the Tube extension was just a pipe dream, wasn't it").

GojiMet86 | 22.04.24 - 4:29 p.m. | #

If they could build a bridge/foot tunnel between Erith and Rainham then getting from South to North would be quicker than taking multiple trains and buses. The Pilgrim ferry between the two closed in the 1800s which used connect to Erith to Coldharbour Point.

C | 28.04.24 - 11:17 p.m. | #











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