please empty your brain below

Surprised that although the reply to the request for a list of Section 12 stations is dated August 2016 the list given is from 2009. Although Heathrow 123 and 3 are on the list I do not see Heathrow T5 station, which is below ground, so out of date information.
Hang on a minute, Temple station is not remotely underground. Having worked in 180 Strand (which you recently visited) for many years I would be most aggrieved to have to walk back up the hill when tired after working late to get to Embankment or Blacfriars by bus = they are long walks.
You would think that tfl might be able to just send someone downstairs instead of closing St James park
Re Temple, it is Underground in the sense of not being open to the air, which is what Section 12 refers to.

I'm in two minds about FFTF. I think closing ticket offices and forcing staff out onto the floor was a good idea. But there does need to be more staff! There's also a distinct lack of a "customer service" culture in TfL that they could do with solving too...
Exactly the same on the Victoria Line. Both Blackhorse Rd and Tottenham Hale (yes, the main interchange point for the Stansted Express) are being closed for staff shortage at the moment on a regular basis.
If you can do this analysis, why can't TfL?

Or maybe they have... but have chosen to do nothing, rather than solve the issue? If so, why?
Yet another 'below the radar' scandal, now doubt over shadowed by the Southern Trains dispute.

Adds to the sense that things are generally falling apart.

To find out the station is closed at short notice is especially bad if you have to catch a bus to get to it in the first place, only to find that you should have stayed on the bus - or catch another to somewhere you aren't familiar with.
Ken, why would you walk uphill to catch a bus to Embankment or Blackfriars, surely the walk straight to Blackfriars or even Embankment is far easier, and saves you a bus ride?
What's the minimum number of staff for a station? Three? One for each platform and one for the ticket line?
Almost all (I think one exception) of the daytime closures are at the weekend. Not ideal, but does it inconvenience many people to close Temple on a Sunday?

And what are the usual opening and closing times? For example, is it much of an inconvenience if a station closes "early" at 23:59?
That said, if I'd turned up at 00:01 hoping to catch the last train, it would be pretty annoying to find the station closed.

I hope someone is reading who has the ability to ask the question of TfL, and to get an answer.
@Joe

For central London, the area around Temple is short of alternative stations - the nearest are all about half a mile away. And not only is the station not served by any buses closer than the Strand, but none of those buses go to either Blackfriars or Embankment (or indeed Covent Garden, which is marginally nearer)

I am reminded of the busman's prayer, which includes the line "and lead us not into Temple Station, but deliver us from Ealing"
The last eastbound train arrives at Bow Road at 01:02.
So Bow is closing between 90 mins and 4 hours (!) early, roughly once each week. Because it seems TfL does not have enough staff cover.
slightly off topic, but I use Snaresbrook station in the mornings, this is an open air station and it's occasionally left unstaffed. What puzzles me slightly is that when staff have been directed to other stations, they lock all the Ladies and Gents before leaving, which can be inconvenient (sic) for passengers.
Is this not now the subject of an ongoing union dispute, resulting from the size of job cuts following the closure of ticket offices? And have not TfL sought to renegotiate that closure with a reduction in the number of cuts? Not Sadiq Khan's greatest proof of his ability to work with the unions when, yet again, they are proved right about safety. I used Bow Road daily when I still worked, Bow Road is not my favourite walk late at night, nor is the station unmanned my favourite late night location.
I see Temple was still closed at 9am this morning: [twitter evidence]
"Fit For The Future"

This being Britain of course this means the complete opposite...
@Adrian

The minimum numbers for a station will vary depending on how complex the station is, it's the number needed to safely evacuate in an emergency.

As Temple and Bow Road aren't massive stations, I imagine the minimum numbers are 1 supervisor or manager + 1 other. Where I work at Leicester Square, between 7:30am and 11:30pm, it's 1 supervisor or manager + 6 others.
Consecutive stations Tower Hill and Aldgate East closed at the same time Christmas Eve, creating a gap Whitechapel to Monument.

That is 2 buses to connect the journey (25/253 and 15/40.
"Fit For The Future"

This being Britain of course this means the complete opposite...


Perhaps the 'fit' bit is because we may get fitter walking from one station to another...
Temple Station used to be closed on Sunday but this was changed in May 2005 due to "growing customer demand".
I'm sure our new wonderful mayor will sort it all out in double quick time and put all the staff back and stop anymore strikes!
What did people expect when TFL closed their ticket offices. They certainly won't going to put much effort into staffing the stations as they expected the public to cope with the difficulty as usual. And once again how does anyone complain to TFL about their services when their website makes it so difficult. Anyone know a shortcut to get in touch with them!
I'm sure that if TfL still had all their top brass at 55 Broadway, then St James Park would be the last station to close so as not to inconvenience them.

However, now that they and most of the other staff (I'm not sure who are left there now) have been moved elsewhere in preparation for 55 being turned into flats, I'm sure that there will now be other stations that will be prioritised to remain open!

Whatever the Fors and Againsts of FFF, I'm sure that if the higher-ups had to experience travel on a daily basis in the same way as passengers do, then things would quickly change.
@Tones I agree. The TfL site is really awful when trying to find anything specific on there. The postal address contact details are here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/

Although it costs a stamp, I think real mail is better because there is less chance of an e-mail to them being "lost" or ignored.
@microl Plenty of staff still in 55 Broadway (which is now no longer being sold) and some directors - the commissioner and most other top staff are in Windsor house on Victoria street; nearest tube station is st James park so I'm not sure your point stands.
@Joe

Following on from the previous thoughtful reply to your question, I am talking about late at night after a 12+ hour day or evening social, sometimes the last tube (to Wimbledon), and, you always remember when it was cold (although it wasn't as wet 20 years ago as it is now).

The slope becomes a hill, the wind whips along the river making the long walk unpleasant, and (sadly) quite a few homeless people which always raises safety concerns. I worked here for 10 years and always made it home. Now, there would be no guarantee.
Ken,

My point was that having walked downhill from 180 Strand, surely the walk along the flat embankment to Embankment or, closer, Blackfriars, would be easier than the walk back uphill to catch a bus to do the same. Obviously if you knew in advance Temple was closed you'd just take the bus from Strand in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I by no means condone these regular closures, they're an absolute disgrace. Once again we've rolled over and swallowed the corporate lie that the ticket office closures would have no other detrimental effect. Whenever will we learn....?
TFL have said they will recruit 600 new staff in 2017. Only around 60 of these are additional station staff, most are to replace retirements and resignations across LU and will have no affect on station numbers. Pure spin. And what about all the open air stations that are left unstaffed all day long? You have a COO who blames this on staff "not booking on for overtime shifts". Since when was this compulsory? Lunatics in charge of the asylum!
It's not just station closures. In the last couple of months, I've twice passed through West Ham in the evening, and noticed that all escalators and lifts had been turned off due to staff shortage.

Again, the people who require the most help are suffering first from cuts.

@TfLAccess is one to keep an eye on for closures across the network.
@Flare
You're probably right.
I didn't realise that the TfL were still keeping 55, I thought that it was a done deal some time ago.
No one seems to have commented on the reason for the staff shortage -
- Shortage of staff rostered on?
- Shortage of staff turning up due to illness?
- Shortage of staff due to redeploying somewhere else more important (probably the other grouped station)?
- Shortage of staff due to not turning up for another reason - e.g. unofficial industrial dispute, leaving without notice, emergency childcare situations or any other reason?

Is there any indication in the information underlying this that is available regarding this?
Shortage of staff because TfL don't employ enough people.
Notice at Bow Road this afternoon:

Due to ongoing staff shortage this station will be closed from 2215 this evening.

Please use alternative stations etc etc


Sigh.
Owing to sky-high house prices, few if any station staff will be able to live anywhere near Temple and other central stations. So if someone on duty at Temple becomes unwell, has some family emergency or if someone doesn't turn up for a shift change because they've overslept or forgotten, it will take much longer for a replacement to be sent in from out in the sticks.

As the station will then be closed, it will take even longer for replacement member to arrive.

So TfL may decide that if a station has had to close, it's not worth reopening it because the damage has been done. Bringing someone in unexpectedly may also mean that they are not available for their next scheduled shift, so the knock-on effects might be worse than the original problem.

I'm only guessing and I'm not defending the practice, but it may explain why only central-ish stations seem to be affected.
Looks like something inevitable when you have [greedy entrepreneurs], [politicians who wholly admires selfishness and greed] and [union heads who cannot think what's actually needed] in charge.
Hmm... just seen DG's post about advance notice that Bow Road will be closed tonight. That's clearly less forgiveable than a sudden closure.

However, I imagine that staff have to be trained in the quirks of each station, so you probably can't just nominate someone that works at Ealing to look after Bow Road if they've never been there before.

But there should be some form of Plan B to cater for such foreseeable eventualities.
Using Bow Road as the example, it looks as if the night turn supervisor is off (sick, holiday etc) and the union-imposed overtime ban may have prevented another colleague stepping in to cover the station.
But let's not forget "Every Journey Matters". Yeah right.
Even the DLR is affected. Although most DLR stations are above air and unstaffed, some are underground and therefore must be staffed. Bank has suffered a number of late openings in last few weeks - Twitter messages says staff shortage.
IBTimes did some number crunching across the network last month - Temple is the worst affected by staff shortages.

I noticed Leyton had the gates open and no staff visible when I came through the other night. Same cause, I guess.
From martin's linked news story...

Steve Griffiths, chief operating officer for London Underground, said: "I apologise to those customers who have been disrupted by short-term unplanned closures at some of our stations. This is mainly due to some union members not booking on for overtime as part of their current industrial action over staffing."
Unions don't want grouping as they don't want flexibility. I know diamond geezer's hobby horse is staffed ticket offices but his argument is lost. Hardly anyone needs to use a ticket office. Has anyone genuinely missed them? Having staff out on the concourse is much better for tourists etc.

Of course they need to employ more staff but I have seen at first hand how new employees are radicalised by unions.
We have the same issue at the top end of the Vic Line as already mentioned. Unfortunately both are rather busy stations and interchanges (although B'hre Rd has the GOBLIN closure for another 5 weeks or so). The numbers of people being mucked around by all of these unpredictable closures is not acceptable whether there's a bus or not to the next stn. At busy times the E17 buses can't cope - we're not blessed with the same frequency as on the A11 at Bow.

Clearly the overtime ban does not help but then it has exposed the fact that someone used some rather rash assumptions about how the new staffing model (and its costs) would work. It also gives added weight to the unions' argument about staffing levels and safety. It will be interesting to see if we ever achieve a settlement given the dispute has rumbled on for many months and straddles the Mayoral election.
Mark: I think the staffed ticket offices argument may have sailed - this is about having adequate staff to run a network. One of the Fit for the Future objectives was to have every station staffed from first train to last, and they've clearly not got enough people to be able to do that.
At Bromley-by-Bow station...
10:29pm - The next station is Bow Road
10:31pm - The next station is Mile End
I was going to put in an FoI request to see how often closures happen due to staff shortages, but I see someone's beaten me to it. For completeness, I've asked for closed lifts and unmanned stations too.
There have been three occasions when Bow Road and Stepney Green - two paired stations - have both been closed due to staff shortage.

That suggests a serious underlying problem.










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