please empty your brain below

Is the difference between Hammersmith/Shepherd’s Bush and the others with the symbol that if the station has a different name it gets a symbol, but if it has the same name it doesn’t?

dg writes: See West Hampstead.
The DLR goes to single track between Bow Church and Pudding Mill Lane because of lack of space for double track. This is particularly true where it parallels the 'rogue extra line'.

Perhaps the map is c2c's way of making clear that their trackbed will NOT be available for a takeover in the future?

dg writes: It obviously isn't.
Thanks for drawing attention to this.

The map key says "street level transfer between stations. So, arguably, the Hackney interchange is OK because it is at street level (whatever that means).

dg writes: No, it's a raised walkway.

The name seems to be a good guide, as Robert says, but you can find counter-examples, e.g. Kings Cross and St Pancras - strictly three names. I think the lack of a walking figure at Hammersmith etc indicates that sleeping dogs are not to be poked - if attempts have ever been made to claim it as all one station, this map does not intervene (see also Paddington, etc). There is also apparently a new station name on the map: "Waterloo and Waterloo East".

Consistency is probably unachievable anyway. It does seem a useful map.
Doesn't look like they have added the Camden ones either and that's definitely an OSI on their list!

dg writes: The symbol is not being used to show OSIs.
Sudbury Hill isn't shown as an interchange on that map, let alone one with a symbol. It used to appear as an interchange in the past.

Obviously not every valid Out-of-Station Interchange should be shown, but this one is easy to draw on the map, and isn't some egregious long one as it's only 150m.
Does changing at Limehouse still need street level for some directions but not others? Perhaps TfL could use half a man for that...
Plus different maps give you different info, the DLR map tells you that at Canary Wharf you need to walk and that Heron Quays is nearer, whereas the Rail and Tube map has a nice neat interchange symbol and the mess at West India Quay is ignored.

On the Overground there is no hint that Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland are a stones throw apart, leading to the impression that passengers to/from the North London Line need to travel via Canonbury if their service starts/finishes at Dalston Junction, plus do all Overground trains serve London Fields and Cambridge Heath?, the map says they do (the disclaimer at the bottom refers to service patterns on National Rail).

Once Crossrail opens Liverpool Street/Moorgate will be one interchange blodge - perhaps with a walking symbol.
When c2c first started running weekend trains to Stratford they did travel via Bow into Fenchurch Street (the Liverpool Street services ran on weekday evenings). I think it's only in the last couple of timetables that c2c have sent all their Stratford trains to Liverpool Street; if you look at an out of date c2c map, as the map designer probably did, both routes were shown.
A nice new addition to the map, that unfortunately jsut increased the number of inconsistences. The Hammersmith & City at Paddington now requires exiting the station and re-entering, but then Paddington has always been a bit of a mess on the map.

Edgware Road is a mess as well - two physically seperate stations with the same name, but no link between them.

Also, to be really pedantic, the National Rail names for the London Terminii are "London Waterloo", "London Paddington" etc., whilst the the TfL name is just "Waterloo", "Paddington" etc. This is a TfL map, so they use their names, but I was once asked by a Tourist where "London" Paddington was because they couldn't find it on the map !!
I agree with Robert Butlin that it seems to be a hard and fast rule that there's no walking interchange symbol between stations sharing the same name. This is why at West Hampstead there's a symbol between Overground and Thameslink (the Thameslink station has a different name on the map) but not between Overground and Jubilee. Tower Hill, where all three stations have different names, gets two walking interchange symbols.

But this definitely doesn't explain the absence of interchange symbols at Bow Church / Bow Road and White City / Wood Lane.
Surely this would be the ideal mechanism to show the interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters?
Jimbo refers to a tourist having difficulty finding "London Paddington". The trouble is that if tourists learn that trick, the next query will be "Where is Bridge station?".
You’d think after the horrors of Morden’s incorrect zoning and New Adington disappearing into the abyss, TfL would have employed a group of uber geeky tube map fans to ‘spell check’ new maps before they’re sent to the printers. Given how quickly the internet is able to find errors with the map the second it’s published this would be an easy way for them to avoid embarrassment.
I think you are being a little bit over picky. It seems to me that the convention (generally) was to be consistent with the TfL tube diagram when referring to these stations.

In the case of Hackney, you could argue the real problem is that it should now really be one name for the station but I understand the reluctance in doing this. Or, you could introduce yet more symbols in order to achieve further accuracy.

No doubt over time the map will be fine-tuned to represent the situation more accurately. Or they will abandon it as not worth the hassle of doing it.
slightly OT - one of the commenters on your "Railways Update 3" post on 22nd May mentioned the contortions around Heathrow to show the Heathrow Express / Connect stations being outside Zone 6 (in an old version of this map).
i notice that these contortions have now gone - and TfL are suggesting that trips on TfL Rail to Heathrow are just normal journeys within Zone 6, without any mention of the whopping fare surcharge.
It's quite an achievement for someone called Pedantic of Purley to accuse you of being "a little bit over picky"!
Possibly not ideal but without knowing what and why judgement calls were made during the preparation of this version of the map, it could be unfair to raise all of the quibbles identified.

In the round - is the map more useful for having these symbols, and is it misleading enough to cause real inconvenience? My initial reaction is yes and no in order to those 2 questions and as PoP mentions refinements will presumably made in future.
"walking man"...could also be a walking woman?
Can’t they just bung you £100 to review before publishing?
There could be many good reasons why various street level interchanges have not been included. Indeed, it's often pointless to speculate why something isn't on the map.

But regarding what is on the map...
• Hackney Downs to Hackney Central is not a "Street level transfer between stations".
• No timetabled trains run between Fenchurch Street and Stratford.
Finchley Rd (tube j = Finchley Rd and Feognsl (overground). Cartography just too difficult?
Slightly surprised they included Archway - Upper Holloway, but not Camden Town - Camden Road which must be as close, and more useful.

I can only assume that they don't want more people entering and exiting Camden Town station, if they discover this really useful connection, and thus overloading the current station entrance even more!

dg writes: No surprise. Archway - Upper Holloway is shown as an interchange on the tube map. Camden Town - Camden Road is not.
A bit late in the day, but a query DG.
An OSI is, I believe, one where, provided the transfer is made within a limited time period, 2 journeys are counted as one for charging purposes. Is this map supposed to show OSIs only, sensible short walks that are not OSIs or both?

dg writes: Neither.

Does TfL have a clear policy on what constitutes a sensible (and therefore authorised) OSI? My guess is that the map is showing both, inconsistently, from your text but I am unclear. What would seem sensible would be for any 2 stations that can be walked in under a given time, possibly 5 to 10 minutes, to automatically count as an OSI plus designated others.

dg writes: There are 132 OSIs. Thankfully the map doesn't show all of them.
i was about to suggest that it would be great if somebody drew a map with OSIs ... but of course there already is at least one.
83 of those 132 are shown on the map, if you count the OSIs that are same station. This is as Kings Cross-St Pancras-KXSP has 10 different entries and other stuff like that.

Many of the remaining 49 are specific and so would be not worth showing - eg Bank-Cannon St is with the NR station only. Others are just awkward creating big messes of blobs (cf the Euston area, where blobs would go from Warren St to KXSP). Others like Kilburn-Brondesbury or Manor Park - Woodgrange Park merely duplicate a nearby (and normally better) interchange.

I'd suggest that the following 17 are possible to show (that doesn't mean they should be):
*Bounds Green - Bowes Park
*Camden Town - Camden Road or Kentish Town - Kentish Town West
*East Putney - Putney
*Euston Square - Euston
*Hanger Lane - Park Royal
*Ickenham - West Ruislip
*Kenton - Northwick Park
*Leytonstone - Leytonstone High Road
*Seven Sisters - South Tottenham
*Sudbury Hill - Sudbury Hill Harrow
*Clock House - Kent House
*Bromley South - Bromley North
*Penge East - Penge West
*New Cross - New Cross Gate
*Upper Warlingham - Whyteleafe
*Harringay - Harringay Green Lanes
ADS - that map with OSIs doesn't show all that could be shown though.

Missing are Bank, Monument and Mansion House - Cannon St NR. Bank - Liverpool St NR, Marylebone NR - Baker Street and Edgware Road CDH. Southwark and Embankment's NR interchanges don't tell you what stations (the former to Blackfriars, Waterloo East, the latter to Charing Cross, Waterloo and Waterloo East). To be fair, there's good reasons to omit those connections...
Probably best to conclude that Transport for London means exactly that. Londoners need to hold on to some know-how without it being published for all and sundry to know about.
ADS - that map is enchanting, and certainly far more intuitive than the official version. Thanks for linking.

Si - I think it would confuse matters no end to show interchanges to NR which are entirely outside the scope of this map (which is for TfL services only). There is a hint though; at Harringay Green Lanes for instance.
Michael T - my list at 10:37 was for the tube and rail map, not the wikipedia map.

I have a separate list for the wikipedia map (posted at 10:48), taking into account the nature of that map, though that is a 'these are missing' rather than 'these should be added' list (and the one for the tube and rail map is 'these could be added', not 'should').
Si - i still think it would be nice to have a map that included *all* allowable OSIs ... as sometimes it's nice to vary a route ... or a station is closed so the optimal route is not available ... or a seemingly sub optimal route has more steps etc. etc.
Agreed that a map with all OSIs would be very helpful. I have made my own, marked on the great INAT map, but it's not posted anywhere since I haven't asked for copyright permission. When you see the interchanges between, say, Penges East and West, or Kent House and Clock House, South London becomes a lot more joined-up.
I don't think Thameslink no longer runs between Tulse Hill and Norwood Junction

Mr Mappy










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