please empty your brain below
It was briefly like this after the Falklands war, but soon abated. Then, though, there weren't the regular deaths there are now, and the government of the day was acceptable to most of the press, which for those reasons had less opportunity to oppose government policy day by day including Remembrance Day.

Gordon | 14.11.09 - 11:30 a.m. | #

Hear hear.

Sarah | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 11:40 a.m. | #

Well said DG. I couldn't agree more.

THC | 14.11.09 - 11:46 a.m. | #

I think this is happening because of the arrogant disrespect & lack of support (not enough kit, not the kit needed) shown to the troops by Gordon Brown & his cronies. Brown is big on words but curiously reluctant to open the purse strings to actually PAY for kit (money needed more urgently to pay for one-legged Lesbian DJ Outreach Officers). People line up at Wooten Bassett to pay their respects because they know that no govt Minister will ever turn up (too busy filling out their expense claims & ordering champers). When this changes, I have no doubt that the public's behaviour will change.

Ruth | 14.11.09 - 12:25 p.m. | #

... and there's a perfect example.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 12:28 p.m. | #

I totally agree. My offspring had two minutes' silence at their schools this year, I don't remember that ever happening at my schools, even during the Falklands. Then again, the majority of kids at my primary and secondary schools were of Irish heritage, squaddies weren't *particularly* popular in the '70s...

Helen | 14.11.09 - 1:01 p.m. | #

I have been getting increasingly uncomfortable with how the media focuses on Wooten Bassett everytime a dead body is flown back.

It is almost getting to the point that the bystanders are more newsworthy than the reason for them being there.

"Here is a journalist at Wooten Bassett, where thousands of people will stand in silence as a procession of cars passes through the town. Look at the crowds, and lets talk to the crowds and lets discuss the crowds."

"Oh, seems there is something to do with a dead solder happening today as well - anyone know anything about that?"

IanVisits | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 1:03 p.m. | #

Red poppies are sold in support of the British Legion's care for British soldiers damaged by war, since the government chooses not to embrace this role. Bu contrast, those suffering from (e.g.) war-induced birth defects in Falluja have no such sources of support.

White poppies are sold by the Peace Pledge Union in support of their campaign to promote non-violent approaches to problem-solving. Bring it on!

Truly, we cannot read Homer and hold onto the belief that Western civilisation has progressed.

Kathryn Edwards | 14.11.09 - 2:04 p.m. | #

100\\% agreement here. And there also ought to be a special day of reckoning to cast shame on the generals covered with medals and politicians who get us into wars in the first place.

Jon | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 2:24 p.m. | #

Thank you DG for expressing exactly what I've been thinking rather better than I could.

There's been a noticeable shift in the approach to Remembrance in the last couple of years: I always regarded it as a time for reflection. There now seems to be a much more sinister undertone developing.

nec | 14.11.09 - 3:36 p.m. | #

The word "hero" now seems to mean "someone who is in a war zone" - although I'm not sure if aid workers, journalists, etc. are heroes when they die? Certainly the "enemy" and "colateral damage civilians" are excluded. Golly its confusing.

I always try to respect remembrance day because I think of young soldiers who die and get wounded as victims. It should make all of us think much more carefully about war and its consequences.

IanB | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 4:07 p.m. | #

It reminds me of the fetishisation of grief which followed Ian Huntley and the Soham murders. The ITV news was particularly bad, showing an extended montage of the girls accompanied by syrupy music; plus there were the infamous Soham tourists …

I agree with your point about army remembrance, DG. For me, a one minute silence was more dignified - what does the extra minute add? A minute’s more respect?! It takes 30 secs to say a silent and sincere prayer, if you’re so inclined. And making villains of those who don't wear poppies is embarrassing and ridiculous. My grandad - a WW2 vet - didn't mind people who didn't wear them; he fought for people to be allowed to make their own minds up, not have opinions forced on them. Not that he had much choice as a conscript - and maybe that's part of the point. Today's soldiers are career soldiers; as much as I respect the armed services, anyone who joins them knows the dangers, and everybody who joins has a choice. Obviously the government is culpable if it doesn't equip the services properly, but maudlin references to 'our heroes' and 'our boys' is nothing more than insincere claptrap, political point-scoring or attempts to stifle debate. It devalues everything about Remembrance Day, and that is extremely sad.

The Antman | 14.11.09 - 4:17 p.m. | #

I'm still not sure how accurately the media is reflecting the public mood on this. Is there really a pro-military shift? I don't expect Peckham and Walworth to be representative of the rest of the country, but I've barely seen a soul wearing a poppy round here, despite their ubiquity on the TV. Even the BBC's foreign correspondents have been wearing poppies on the news; the BBC must send them out across the globe, presumably including to countries with less fond memories of British militarism.

This kind of thing is to be expected from the mostly right-wing press who are always keen to jump on a band wagon. I thought that perhaps the BBC's excessive enthusiasm was part of their attempts to fawn up to the forthcoming Conservative government.

James | 14.11.09 - 4:35 p.m. | #

"The army is no longer full of soldiers, but of heroes."
Welcome to America.
The word 'hero' is banded about too freely these days. I think we forget that the troops everywhere are just doing their job. They signed up for it and are getting paid for it. No one has been conscripted...yet.
Of course it is tragic when someone is killed, but that's war!

CornishCockney | 14.11.09 - 7:05 p.m. | #

I visited the Imperial War Museum in London and the In Flanders Fields Museum (http://www.inflandersfields.be/) in Ieper (Belgium) within days of each other. The contrast in approach is remarkable: the London one is far more jingoistic in its approach to war. The Belgian version was far more engaging and conceived to make you feel part of the horrors of that particular era and place.

uroskin | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 9:14 p.m. | #

Before we had 24 hr news channels, the national news lasted for about 20 minutes and featured what had happened of interest to the public. Now there are too many minutes to fill, so predictable stories which happen at a fixed time, become a 'banker' to pad out the programmes if it turns out to be a slow news day.

fremsley | 14.11.09 - 10:27 p.m. | #

A lot of my work colleagues are ex-services - and saber rattling ones at that! However, almost to a person they are now saying we should be bringing our soldiers back. The "Heroes" bit feels like a reaction to the shabby way they are being treated, and the unpopularity of the government.

Steve Barker | Homepage | 14.11.09 - 11:55 p.m. | #

Extremely well said dg.

ganching | Homepage | 15.11.09 - 8:38 a.m. | #

I guess you lot will start to call them hero's again if the Nazi's land in Jersey and our hero's have to get rid of them.

ColininThailand | 15.11.09 - 9:59 a.m. | #

As James says above, I too don't agree that the media are reflecting public opinion. As ever, they are trying to make it.

More people than ever are now joining those of us who have been saying all along that war is wrong. I noted that many more people were not wearing red poppies, in sheep-like style this year, and I was not the only one explaining to the poppy sellers why I would not support them.

Wearing a red poppy shows support for the concept of war. It was just about tolerable while there were a significant number of WW1 and WW2 survivors about. Now, it does nothing more than fund the post-war lives of those who've chosen a career which involves killing and maiming innocent people in far-away countries where the culture and beliefs are very different to ours, so cannot, and should not, be judged in our terms.

Wear your Blue Poppy with determination.

Blue Witch | Homepage | 15.11.09 - 10:07 a.m. | #

Colin In Thailand "I guess you lot will start to call them hero's again if the Nazi's land in Jersey and our hero's have to get rid of them."

Soldiers surely realise that not everyone in a uniform is a hero. You debase soldiers if you fail to recognise the true heroism that some achieve.

Secondly, if you live in Thailand you should be all too aware of the real dangers of militarisation!

IanB | Homepage | 15.11.09 - 10:37 a.m. | #

Great piece. "I'd prefer to commemorate long-fallen veterans rather than prioritising desert-booted teenagers." wins many awards.

(I'm grateful to WWII veterans. For people who've fought in the pointless wars we've started since, it's a combination of pity and indifference)

john b | Homepage | 15.11.09 - 12:45 p.m. | #

Let us not forget that it is because people gave their lives in WW1 and WW2 that we live in freedom and have the freedom to pour scorn on the Two Minutes Silence. 120 seconds of quiet reflection on the nature of war really isnt a lot to give, compared with those who paid the ultimate price.

We must remember, too, that people still give up their lives daily in pursuit of freedom. Whether or not we agree with that pursuit, whether we condone the acts of politicians or religious leaders who send them to war or not, whether we consider that the media uses war for its own jingoistic ends in order to sell newspapers, is of no consequence.

Men and women died - and contine to die - in the service of their country, their Queen and their God, and it is right and proper that we stop to remember that sacrifice on Rememberance Day.

Capability Bowes | 15.11.09 - 7:17 p.m. | #

Capability Bowes - agree with you completely. As to buying & wearing a poppy, IMO it does not either glorify or support war. The money raised by the RBL goes to help & support ex-Service personnal as this is something the State - happy to send people off to fight in its name - is curiously reluctant to do. Much of the rehabilitation of Iraq & Afghan veterans is done by charity - not by the govt.

Ruth | 16.11.09 - 9:31 a.m. | #

Quite agree DG, I went to see Wolves play Arsenal on Saturday the 7th Nov and was met by a couple of hundred military rattling buckets and collecting for 'helpforheroes' charity. We then had a minutes silence before kick off, I felt rather manipulated, I wanted to watch a fotball match not get caught up in war properganda - I totally respect Remembrance sunday but all the add ons devalue its resonance.

Martin | 17.11.09 - 8:02 p.m. | #

Two years on and this blogpost seems more pertinent than ever.

AC | 10.11.11 - 10:25 p.m. | #











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