please empty your brain below
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...until Crossrail opens, and then Farringdon/Barbican and Moorgate/Liverpool Street join the club. I don't know whether it will be possible to walk between the extremities of each station complex without passing through one or more gatelines; I recall, maybe incorrectly, four between Waterloo and Southwark using the route you describe.
THC | 21.11.13 - 8:15 a.m. | #
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On a note of pedantry, there are 3 escalators down from the Southwark landing (with the awesome blue wall) to the space between the platforms.
They feel quite different to most other escalator shafts as you are in a tunnel for one escalator, not a pair (or more). I think this is because in between the escalators are the foundations for the arches of the railway above, and there isn't enough space to fit two escalators in the same shaft.
Darren S | 21.11.13 - 8:23 a.m. | #
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I'm looking forward to Crossrail 2's promised "Euston Kings Cross St Pancras" myself.
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 21.11.13 - 9:29 a.m. | #
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The new balcony mezzanine at Waterloo is hideous, it destroys the integrity of the gently curving facade, cutting through the architectural detailing in a bland sweep.
Waterhouse | 21.11.13 - 10:08 a.m. | #
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The Telegraph has an obituary today of Roland Paoletti, the main architect of the stations on the Jubilee line extension.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10460471/Roland-Paoletti-Obituary.html
Alan Burkitt-Gray | 21.11.13 - 10:46 a.m. | #
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The double barrier line at between Waterloo east and Southwark stations is a trap for the unwary, as it is possible to get stuck in no mans land, for example if your Oyster has maxed out, or you have an NR-only ticket. Mind you, if you have a Travelcard it makes a handy weatherproof cut through from Blackfrairs Road to Waterloo main line station.
The mezzanine is a good idea, bjt the detailing is clumsily executed. And I agree that Waterloo East is now very difficult to find - several times I have had to explan to people on the main concourse that the entrance is directly above them!
Why, of all the places in the vicinity, is the Imperial War Museum singled out as being reachable from the Sandal Street exit? It's not even the nearest exit to the museum.
timbo | 21.11.13 - 10:48 a.m. | #
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"I don't think there's another pair of Underground stations like it - two neighbouring stations on the same line where you can walk from one to the other without ever leaving a station."
Arguably Paddington (Bishops Road) and Paddington (Praed Street) are different stations, at least, they are shown that way on the in-car diagrams for the Circle Line.
hardly neighbouring though - it's 26 stops from one to t'other!
The arrangment is quite commonplace in Paris, with the big RER stations having more than one metro station connected to them: for instance, Chateau Landon and Gare de L'Est stations on Line 7 are both connected to the main line station, and Chetelet-les Halles RER station is connected to two stations on Lne 4.
More extreme is the situation around St Lazare: you can walk from St Augustin on Line 9 to St Lazare (on line 3 and some others), and thus to the RER line E terminus at Haussmann-St Lazare, which has a connection to Havre Caumartin, which is on both lines 3 and 9. But it doesn't stop there - you can then walk via another RER line A station at Auber to Opera, which is, once again, on Line 3!
timbo | 21.11.13 - 11:30 a.m. | #
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I would be very wary of the financial implications of doing that walk on a pay-as-you-go Oyster card. Goodness knows what you'd get charged. And the explanation and calculation would rival any Mornington Crescent move.
If you have a day travelcard (paper or Oyster) or you've already got up to some suitable cap for the day, then you're probably OK then. Probably.
But thanks for the description of what you might see on the way.
Malcolm | 21.11.13 - 12:07 p.m. | #
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I don't know what this walk would cost, but if you arrive into Waterloo East (even on a NR-only ticket), you can use a PAYG Oyster to walk through Southwark station to exit at the other end, and it will debit £0.00.
SamB | 21.11.13 - 12:20 p.m. | #
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I used to do the walk from Waterloo to Waterloo East each day to commute to London Bridge, as National Rail tickets to "London Terminals" are valid to London Bridge and Charing Cross too, which saved quite a bit of money over a travelcard.
The tunnel between Waterloo and Waterloo East was always very congested at peak times. I can't begin to imagine the hell if they've put ticket barriers in, it must cause huge queues. Very glad I don't make that journey any more!
"This is a busy ticket hall, and probably one of the last TfL will close should they ever announce a major raft of closures."
How timely... I see an article on BBC News today saying TFL have announced *all* tube ticket offices are to close.
Jon Combe | 21.11.13 - 12:48 p.m. | #
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@Sam B, Jon Combe
Is this new? I had always understood you would get charged a Z1 tube fare to walk between the barrier lines at at Southwark. You are saying I shouldn't be charged. Which ticket should I use to work the barriers - my PAYG Oyster, or my point to point "London Terminals" season ticket?
Sam B suggests the Oyster would charge me nothing: Jon suggests the season ticket will work the barriers. Or coulfd I do either?
timbo | 21.11.13 - 1:03 p.m. | #
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Very prescient to mention the large-scale closure of ticket halls!
NLW | 21.11.13 - 3:41 p.m. | #
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Ticket office closures: sounds like there will still be some sort of ticket office at the seven "gateway" stations (Heathrow, Paddington, Victoria, Euston, King's Cross St Pancras, Liverpool Street, and Piccadilly Circus).
Andrew | 21.11.13 - 5:28 p.m. | #
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In other news, it appears that only a tiny number of regular commuters are using the Arabfly Dangleway. Who could have guessed that so few people would want a slow and expensive trip from nowhere in particular to nowhere else? Four people used Oyster more than five times in one week in October, and 18 multi-trip tickets were sold that week.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/boris-johnsons-pitiful-60m-cable-car-used-by-just-four-regular-commuters-8953512.html
dg writes: Originally reported here yesterday.
Andrew | 21.11.13 - 5:36 p.m. | #
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@timbo I was referring to a journey into London Waterloo (on South West Trains) and from there to Waterloo East and on the train (not tube) from Waterloo East to London Bridge. Tickets valid into Waterloo are also valid to Victoria, Charing Cross, London Bridge and Cannon Street (possibly also Blackfriars), providing you get to them on National Rail services, rather than the tube. I don't think any National Rail only tickets will work the barriers at Southwark tube station.
Jon Combe | 21.11.13 - 8:26 p.m. | #
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It's not an exact comparison, but the vast subterranean PATH system in Toronto, which allows office workers to stay out of the cold in winter, is served by SIX subway stations, all on the same line, plus the city's main railway station.
Jimweibo | 21.11.13 - 8:47 p.m. | #
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The bizarre no-man's-land between Waterloo East and Southwark station gatelines was I believe the result of local residents not wanting us scruffy passengers walking past their front doors, so they objected to an exit being built there. Of course it could be made simpler by taking out both sets of gates, but that would be too easy! Anyway, that would probably make it the only place where you could get between main line and Underground trains without having your ticket checked. Er, hang on...
(and has Waterloo East always been called that? As a spotty young trainspotter I called it the ABCD platforms at Waterloo. Was I just being very unobservant, or distracted by too many 4-CIGs or whatever they were?)
Andrew S | 22.11.13 - 1:06 p.m. | #
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At Waterloo go to the Jubilee Line ticket hall, through the ticket barriers and head for the lift. On your right there is a door labelled "Elephants head storeroom" or something, bizarre if you haven't seen the elephants head at that point.
ASALEF shrugged | Homepage | 22.11.13 - 1:14 p.m. | #
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@timbo
I was concerned it would charge me a Z1 fare too, but I asked the staff who told me it would be fine, and it did indeed charge me £0.00.
Similarly, I was with my partner who had used a PAYG Oyster to travel to Waterloo East. We then exited through Southwark station, and it didn't cost him any more than the regular NR fare.
It is admittedly about a year since we last did this though, so it's worth asking before you try it.
SamB | 22.11.13 - 2:30 p.m. | #
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These two posts have more about it:
http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2011/09/the-southwark-pass-through/
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4395
I believe it's the paper platform ticket that costs 20p.
SamB | 22.11.13 - 2:33 p.m. | #
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@ Andrew S
it was originally called Waterloo Junction (and was indeed a junction unbtil the 1920s, with a connection across the concourse of the main line station)
A CIG would be a rare beast on the South Eastern - standard fare on the longer distance services in the 1960s-90s was the older CEP/BEP type, with VEPs and HAPs on the outer suburban work and EPBs on the inners. The CIGs were used on the Central and South Western divisions.
timbo | 22.11.13 - 3:27 p.m. | #
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