please empty your brain below
Are platform humps enough to qualify a station for a blue blob, and if so, does that mean there's scope for Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road to become single-blob interchanges?

martin | 20.12.17 - 7:17 a.m. | #

Poplar for Canary Wharf - could you expand on that please?

NLW | 20.12.17 - 7:19 a.m. | #

So, the maths have been done ... the map is now only 60% tube stations and 40% of it is non tube ... so should we just be calling it the ‘TfL services map’ instead ??

Also, I am DELIGHTED that Crossrail is shown as a cased (tramlines) design, instead of a solid. This is correct - solid lines represents the Underground, non-solid means another mode of transport. Excellent.

Geofftech | 20.12.17 - 7:24 a.m. | #

I'm sure back in the early 90s one version of the tube map included the central part of Thameslink, plus sections of what is now the Overground, as 'National Rail' services, presumably to promote the idea that there were other rail-based means to cross London, even if infrequent in those days (this was not the 'london connections' map).

dg writes: Yes indeed. Here's 1994.

James | 20.12.17 - 7:36 a.m. | #

What? Stratford cross-rail platforms only step-free from platform to street, not carriage to street? Why on earth would that be?

Steve | 20.12.17 - 7:40 a.m. | #

D'oh - ignore me. It's the existing TfL Rail bit...

Steve | 20.12.17 - 7:41 a.m. | #

Am I the only one that doesn't like the interchange symbol being used for stations which also have a National Rail connection, e.g. Old Street.

robbaker292 | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 7:51 a.m. | #

@NLW

just look at Google Maps. it's not hard to work out.

Canary Wharf crossrail is physically nearer to Poplar (and West India Quay) DLR stations than it is to Canary Wharf tube or DLR stations.

Geofftech | 20.12.17 - 7:55 a.m. | #

@NLW. As Geofftech has pointed out, the nearest DLR station to the Crossrail Canary Wharf station is Poplar. At present, direct access isn't easy (because the patch of land in between is a building site) but future plans include a direct walkway between those stations. The station building at CW has been open for years, and if you visit you can see that a northern exit (directly aimed at Poplar DLR) is ready and waiting.
Meanwhile, despite what this new map suggests, the connection to the CW jubilee line station is not near.

IslandDweller | 20.12.17 - 8:11 a.m. | #

I would think that things would be clearer if they had put Farringdon (subsurface) above Farringdon (crossrail) and Barbican below the crossrail station.

Greg | 20.12.17 - 8:19 a.m. | #

The map is missing step-free blobs for a number of stations that will have SFA by Dec 2018: Moorgate (Northern Line), Paddington (Bakerloo), Victoria (D&C)

Malc | 20.12.17 - 8:31 a.m. | #

Why, oh why, can't TfL bring out a separate map with step-free access details, and leave the pocket map alone? Or use the index to put the wheelchair symbols on? (Next to a station, wheelchair symbols in colours for each line, circled if it's street to carriage)

Anonymous | 20.12.17 - 9:28 a.m. | #

Paddington is a mess indeed. But why does it take a whole year to connect it to the western part of the line?

dg writes: See this post from 2 weeks ago.

Greg S | 20.12.17 - 9:30 a.m. | #

Also, iPad and hi-res map = not friends. "A problem occured with this webpage, so it was reloaded" ad infinitum.

Anonymous | 20.12.17 - 9:31 a.m. | #

Another Crossrail related map change strikes me as odd and certainly a failure in terms of design simplicity.

Both Liverpool Street and Paddington are now named twice.

Even on the current tube map which already shows Tfl Rail at Liverpool Street that's not deemed necessary.

ap | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 9:36 a.m. | #

The double naming at Paddington and Liverpool Street is likely only temporary, because yesterday's map had to look good with Crossrail highlighted.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 9:44 a.m. | #

At last TfL got the memo about Heathrow Terminal 1 having been closed.

dg writes: The tube map 'got the memo' in January 2016.

Greg S | 20.12.17 - 9:48 a.m. | #

What about the stations from West Drayton to Reading? Will they never feature on the map?

dg writes: From December 2019. See this post from 2 weeks ago.

LS | 20.12.17 - 10:15 a.m. | #

dg,

Won't Liverpool Street permanently need double-naming because otherwise, it won't be clear whether the central and top-right blobs are Moorgate or Liverpool Street?

Mind you, I don't think that the map is clear in this respect for the Bank/Monument interchange - is the central blob Bank or Monument? (Obviously it's Bank but this isn't clear from the map)

Regards

zin92 | 20.12.17 - 10:30 a.m. | #

I hope someone makes a good tube+thameslink map minus disability signs. It's a difficult thing to search for.

toby | 20.12.17 - 11:00 a.m. | #

Maps are fun. But they are also controversial, as the above comments remind us.

I don't like the repeated whines about the step-free symbols. For people for whom such things are important, they are important.

Malcolm | 20.12.17 - 11:08 a.m. | #

Loving the Liverpool Street / Moorgate connection. Coming in on Great Northern services to Moorgate I understand why that line does not show but if you read the blurb splashed around Moorgate for the last couple of years you get the strong impression that there is going to be a Crossrail station there.You then realise that it's not quite that although they are remodeling Moorgate. It is in fact a function of the platforms being so long that one end is the Liverpool Street and the other pushes into Moorgate

Mitch | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 11:39 a.m. | #

Agreed, for those who have step-free needs, it's really important. So important in fact that tfl do produce TWO maps with ALL the info - available as pdf and paper copies.

One is the accessibility map, the other is 'travelling without steps'. They are both brilliant, comprehensive - and most important - tell you EVERYTHING you need to know, rather than the half-hearted fudge that the regualar pocket map does, which tries to cater for everyone but is let down because it doesn't contain all the information that someone with accessibility needs actually wants to know.

Geofftech | 20.12.17 - 11:52 a.m. | #

On the tfl website. Have a look and download:

- Step free map

- Avoiding stairs map

Comprehensive. Complete. And so much better than the fudge that is the standard map.

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

Geofftech | 20.12.17 - 11:55 a.m. | #

This is the point where someone (so it might as well be me) mentions that TfL can produce eleventy different versions of the Underground map but is completely incapable of producing a bus map anymore.

Ned | 20.12.17 - 12:07 p.m. | #

Still looking forward to seeing how TfL/National Rail will signpost Crossrail trains at Liverpool Street to distinguish between those starting from the high level mainline station and low level Crossrail station.

| 20.12.17 - 12:32 p.m. | #

But this is the problem - there are the two step free maps which are useful for those that need that ability. I'm not sure that the normal map helps anyone that needs that ability other than an aide memoire - it just doesn't provide enough detail for anyone.

Kirk | 20.12.17 - 12:45 p.m. | #

Paris has had interstation connection links on their map for decades without issues.

Philip | 20.12.17 - 12:45 p.m. | #

I’d have to agree with Geofftech that the current pocket map is a fudge and it is now being expected to show too much with such compromise as to make it increasingly ‘cloudy’ at this size. In terms of graphic design - it says a lot for the basic strength of the Beck design that it has just about held to the original concept for so long but I suspect it is now at breaking point and isn’t doesn’t really any longer have the clarity and simplicity required.

Moquette | 20.12.17 - 12:49 p.m. | #

The most excellent Carto Metro map really helps in showing the potential connections between the new crossrail platforms and existing tube stations.

Jon Jones | 20.12.17 - 1:19 p.m. | #

I'm not sure that the existence of the other maps showing more detailed accessibility information should preclude the main map having at least some accessibility information on it.

Some information is better than none, and not everyone will be aware of the other maps.

Showing step-free from street to train or street to platform is enough for some scenarios, for instance those who would prefer a lift but can tackle some stairs, such as those with limited mobility, luggage or pushchairs.

Better to make the main map as inclusive as possible rather than relegate all accessibility information to other channels.

Frankie Roberto | 20.12.17 - 1:23 p.m. | #

Controversial opinion: the blue/white blobs don't particularly bother me.

What I think *would* be more useful, however, is to replace the current pocket map with a decent scale zone 1-2 map, showing everything useful in there - tube, DLR, Overground, Crossrail, Thameslink. For the majority of tourists/visitors that'll cover the majority of their needs.

Then have a proper all zones map, which as you no longer have to worry about it being pocket-sized, can be at a much more readable scale.

Moogal | 20.12.17 - 1:26 p.m. | #

@12:32

It won't sign 'Crossrail' trains at all! ;P

At Paddington, they can simply sign it as westbound and eastbound for the year before the service integrates.

Liverpool Street is harder to discern - as it is only until May 2019, the nature of such signage could very well be engineering works style. I'd imagine Euston-esque 'Shenfield branch' and 'Abbey Wood branch'. Post-May, they can just throw purple roundels next to the NR arrows to represent the peak Elizabeth Line trains into Liverpool Street Mainline (if they even bother).

Also interesting re:interchange signage is how Liverpool St-Moorgate and Farringdon-Barbican will be signed to and from the SSLs.


-----

Re: Canary Wharf and Poplar - what new OSIs will exist this time next year? And will Paddington NR-Lancaster Gate be removed?

Si | 20.12.17 - 1:49 p.m. | #

Si. Even when the Shenfield service links into the central tunnels, a small number of Liz Line trains will still run to the 'old' Liverpool Street terminus.

IslandDweller | 20.12.17 - 1:55 p.m. | #

Curiously there is no interchange shown at Woolwich with the more-or-less adjacent but separate National Rail/DLR Arsenal station, despite the presence of interchange at the similarly separate Canary Wharf stations.

Man of Kent | 20.12.17 - 1:58 p.m. | #

@Island Dweller: Indeed - I mentioned them. I doubt they will be well signed from the tube (and definitely not the Crossrail station), being peak only and a third of the frequency of the main route. A purple roundel, or similar rather than explicitly 'Elizabeth line'.

@Man of Kent: It is shorter than Canary Wharf, so odd. I'd imagine it would be an OSI. However, it's not a hugely useful interchange.

Si | 20.12.17 - 2:24 p.m. | #

I think that this redesign, done by Cam Booth in 2016 does a good job: https://www.cambooth.net/redrawing-the-tube-map/

Ian C | 20.12.17 - 2:30 p.m. | #

What really jumps out at me from that map is that the eastern branches are entirely step-free whereas nothing between Paddington and Heathrow is yet step-free.

whiff | 20.12.17 - 3:29 p.m. | #

It's true - Woolwich is an interchange of limited utility in the final scheme, however until Poplar is shown as an interchange (or at least until Crossrail at Stratford goes through the core), Woolwich could be considered a useful interchange between stations on the Woolwich Branch of the DLR and Crossrail in the West (the elephant in the room being LCY-LHR).

I guess it would be seen as suboptimal to introduce an interchange, only to remove it a short time later.

In any case, there's a fairly busy road to cross between the two Woolwich stations, and hardly ideal with luggage/children/limited mobility.

Michael T | 20.12.17 - 3:35 p.m. | #

FAO: Whiff

See here for step free access west of Paddington:
https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/10026103.article

mark | 20.12.17 - 4:54 p.m. | #

Surprised that nobody's yet mentioned the fact that on the draft December 2018 map, the two Edgware Road stations have swapped places; the Bakerloo Edgware Road (north of the Marylebone Flyover) now appears to the south of its H&C/Circle/District namesake. At least now the Bakerloo/District/Circle Paddington now appears as a single blob, rather than two blobs with the H&C/Circle Paddington in the middle.

Also, the Northern line around Mornington Cresent is weirding me out. It's become all squished up! It hasn't looked like that since the late eighties. I'm not used to it looking like that!

TheLupineOne | 20.12.17 - 6:10 p.m. | #

Northern line Bonus: Mill Hill East's branch now appears as at right angles to the line to High Barnet... as it was on the 1987 map with the squished up Mornington Cresent situation, rather than the 45 degree angle on the 1990 map which gave Mornington Cresent a bit more space to breathe!

TheLupineOne | 20.12.17 - 6:14 p.m. | #

Still too early to show the Northern Line's Battersea extension as under construction?

"2020 - Testing and commissioning; extension in operation" says TFL's NLE page.

Pimlico Pete | 20.12.17 - 6:37 p.m. | #

And it's all kicking off on twitter...

@JackO_May

I regret to inform you that I am going to tweet all of the things that displease me about the new Tube map design planned for December 2018.

ap x 2 | 20.12.17 - 6:50 p.m. | #

@Pimlico Pete: there’s not been any lines shown as under construction for years. From memory the Overground extension to Clapham Junction was briefly shown as under construction, then removed, only to re-appear once it had actually opened.

I suspect that showing lines under construction is now deemed to be confusing and unnecessary?

Frankie Roberto | 20.12.17 - 8:24 p.m. | #

I have 'announced' that Crossrail will be serving the Central Middlesex Hospital! (Well...its where the line goes on the new map lol!) https://1londonblog.uk/2017/12/barmy-crossrail-map-released-today/

Rog | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 9:30 p.m. | #

"and at Tottenham Court Road Crossrail is the odd one out because it's "step free from street to train"."

The Northern line at Tottenham Court Road is ALSO step free from street to train but that's not shown on the map!

macaron lover | 20.12.17 - 9:40 p.m. | #

The general consensus seems to be that the blobs on this draft Tube map aren't convincingly up-to-date.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 9:53 p.m. | #

Time to ditch the tube map. There is so much more in central London than tubes now and it is misleading to visitors.

Anonymous | 20.12.17 - 10:13 p.m. | #

@Frankie Roberto

Given the map is full of confusion and unnecessary stuff adding under-construction lines wouldn't help.

That said, if you aren't going to make the map less cluttered and confusing, why not add under-construction lines? ;)

Si | 20.12.17 - 10:14 p.m. | #

Looks like Swiss Cottage has broken free of its moorings.

zappomatic | Homepage | 20.12.17 - 11:24 p.m. | #

I believe the Tube map was actually redrawn to incorporate Crossrail in about 2014, going through my older maps. The telltale signs are that the Aldgate triangle changed shape and that the Central line in the Hyde Park area is no longer straight (even though it's dead straight in real life, it's built under a Roman road!).

Before that the last complete redraw was in 1990 when they switched from hand-drawn to CAD maps; that's when Bank/Monument became a single station rather than two joined by a zigzag (and happened at the same time as the H&C and EL lines got their own colours). Probably they'd already made space for the JLX at the same time, being as it managed to appear as under construction for about 6 years.

gregg | 21.12.17 - 3:12 a.m. | #

While we're all talking about showing stepfree access on the map, there's one thing I notice that undermines it slightly: there's no way of showing whether interchanges between two stepfree blobs are stepfree or not.

Yet another case for ditching the symbols on the main map and directing people towards the full stepfree guide map, which details interchanges in meticulous detail.

gregg | 21.12.17 - 3:28 a.m. | #

Interchanges between two step-free platforms at one station are always step-free, although it might involve taking a very different route. (Kings Cross is one example of this)

Matthew Dickinson | 21.12.17 - 9:28 a.m. | #

I wonder if the rather odd treatment of Whitechapel's step free facilities is an admission that the works there are behind schedule and some aspects will not be ready by December 2018?

Intriguing how "worked up" people get about the Tube map and its design tweaks. I never have to use one [1] so all this excitement is rather bemusing.

[1] long term employment at LU tends to mean you end up with the tube network lodged in your brain.

PC | 21.12.17 - 11:24 a.m. | #

The tube map is becoming more and more misleading as it's now a TfL map, i.e. it no longer is just Underground Lines, but ALSO isn't a comprehensive London Connections type map covering all lines in London.

Including Overground branches to Cheshunt, CR to Shenfield etc when not including Thameslink or zone 1 NR lines like between Charing Cross and London Bridge gives a distorted view of London to visitors

Mikey C | 21.12.17 - 12:23 p.m. | #

I think it's time TfL dumped the one-size-fits-all traditional Tube map.

There should be two maps displayed:

- For the tourists: a Central London/Zones 1 and 2 map, similar to those posted on Tube trains, and which should also include Thameslink

- For everyone else: the Rail and Tube services map which has already replaced the Tube map on station platforms

It's not unusual either. In Paris, metro stations always have one map covering Paris and immediate suburbs, and the comprehensive regional map.

Nowadays, most people also have mobile phones. Apps like Citymapper not only give directions, but you can also access and zoom in on transport maps offline.

AO | 22.12.17 - 12:10 a.m. | #

Espadrilles mentioned doing another invisible line....maybe consider part of one of those "Royal views" (I forget the actual name but you know the view from Richmond to St. Paul's etc). I can't think of a set of invisible lines that are more "London".

Brendan | 22.12.17 - 2:25 a.m. | #











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