dg comments

please empty your brain below

I may be wrong, correct me if so, but I thought the 'useless' crossings did not show 'wait' sign when not safe to cross or make beeps when it is OK to cross unless you pressed the button.

So they are useless in the sense they don't speed up your journey as a pedestrian but are very helpful in providing a clear 'WAIT' message in front of you or a reassuring set of beeps if it is OK to cross.

Consider a partially sighted person with hearing. They have good indication they can cross rather than trying to identify a distant red or green pedestrian signal. And the beeping noise only sounds if it is actually useful to someone thus avoiding an unnecessary and distracting sound.

Pedantic of Purley | 25.05.24 - 8:00 a.m. | #

The pedestrian light for the exit out of Golders Green bus station is a bit like the 3rd example, in that it stays in red during a phase when it's completely safe to cross, as the buses have a red light as well.

Mikey C | 25.05.24 - 8:00 a.m. | #

You've forgotten that blind people cross the roads.
You've not checked under the button did you? all these useless buttons will have a rotating cone for blind people so when the greenman shows it spins at the same time.

Jules verne | 25.05.24 - 8:12 a.m. | #

Also, I am fairly sure that at some junctions pressing a button during the day makes no difference as to how quickly you can cross. This is because traffic is busy in all directions so the complete traffic light sequence will inevitably take place. But at less busy times if there is no traffic on some approaching roads it can make a difference because the sequence is prematurely terminated or phases omitted in order to provide a speedier service.

Funnily enough, I was convinced that I read this on Diamond Geezer a few years ago.

Pedantic of Purley | 25.05.24 - 8:23 a.m. | #

Sometimes pressing the button adds in a crossing phase, so if it isn't pressed this is omitted and it just controls vehicle traffic - but the pedestrian won't know this.

Also keep an eye on the induction loops in the road, sometime these aren't triggered so the right turn filter is omitted from the light cycle, this can apply to bicycles and motorbikes because they go to the side, but also cars if they stop too far back.

Finally pedestrian light have a 'time out' so if another pedestrian turns up just after they've been used they'll not go red for a while, whereas if they haven't been used they go red as soon as you press the button.

Still Anon | 25.05.24 - 8:41 a.m. | #

I have known this for many years I thought it was common knowledge

Dave | 25.05.24 - 9:08 a.m. | #

Those in the third category require the button to be used in order to activate the rotating cone for those with visual impairment (as JV has noted). If it were activated automatically on every cycle, it would wear out much sooner.
But it can't be too hard for the cone to be wired on a different circuit, so that the 'WAIT' and green man are activated on every cycle, and the cone only if the button is used. Yes, it would cost a tad more in initial installation costs, but that ought to be it. Instead, we have probably thousands of crossings where, if you turn up when the lights are red for traffic, the red man shows, and the pedestrian has no idea whether there is time to cross.

Hugh | 25.05.24 - 9:18 a.m. | #

When are we going to get signal controlled pedestrian crossings which are at green for pedestrians until a car turns up and makes the red light green for vehicles? And reverts to red after a fixed time allowing pedestrians to start crossing again?

dg writes: three years ago

south london lad | 25.05.24 - 10:37 a.m. | #

I presume that part of the reason is just to have a consistency of process for all crossings

Herned | 25.05.24 - 10:39 a.m. | #

These apparently non-functioning ‘placebo buttons’ are a well-established concept and many learned papers have been written about them, with titles like ‘Placebo Buttons and the Illusion of Control‘. This includes other example, like wall thermostats in offices and ‘close doors’ buttons in lifts. Though, as others have pointed out, the traffic light buttons do have a function in that the ‘wait’ sign lights up, even if they have no influence on the traffic.
The door buttons on London tube trains appear to have a placebo function for some parts of their journey, such that ‘knowing’ inner city travellers can get caught out waiting for the doors to open at outlying stations and failing to press the button before the train moves on.

ActonMan | 25.05.24 - 12:10 p.m. | #

You don't have the more inclusive pedestrian lights of a woman in skirt rather a man pedestrian crossing symbol? I think we are soon to get a man in a dress and a woman in a boiler suit pedestrian symbols.

Maybe your PM is so desperate for a vote from a colony, if I ask, he may enact legislation.

dg writes: we do
Andrew Cee | Homepage | 25.05.24 - 2:07 p.m. | #

Thick the sadists you are referring to are called engineers.
“Can we have a a pedestrian crossing?
No it will slow down traffic… and anyway no one will use it.”

Michael Jones | 25.05.24 - 2:48 p.m. | #

Prince Regent Lane used to annoy me when I lived there. I think High St South at A13 junction is similar. My proud boast is that I persuaded the authorities to consider making the left s/b filter a constant flow through lane 1 when the junction was new under the newly built flyover. Traffic delays had been horrendous, and significant impediment to Trumpton just up the road.

scrumpy | 25.05.24 - 4:07 p.m. | #

Fascinating stuff, although, as a hardened jaywalker, I do not really notice these nuances myself, since I will be long gone over the horizon.

anon | 25.05.24 - 5:15 p.m. | #

"When are we going to get signal controlled pedestrian crossings which are at green for pedestrians until a car turns up and makes the red light green for vehicles? And reverts to red after a fixed time allowing pedestrians to start crossing again?

dg writes: three years ago"

Thanks dg. Any advance on 12?

south london lad | 25.05.24 - 6:41 p.m. | #

There are some junctions where a car driver facing a lengthy red light can get out and push one of the buttons and make his light turn green just as he's getting back in his car.

Basil Jet | 25.05.24 - 7:20 p.m. | #

Your map reminded me of the Königsberg bridge problem!

Tony | 25.05.24 - 8:29 p.m. | #

Q. Does the UK have the worst pedestrian crossings in Europe ?

dg writes: A. No

John | 25.05.24 - 9:22 p.m. | #

Out in the Royal Borough of Car Lovers and Pedestrian Haters (occasionally referred to as Windsor & Maidenhead), the latter design is standard on all new or replaced crossings, so no green man unless the button is pressed, even at such major and heavily used crossings as outside the railway station where traffic will be held anyway.

Other regressive developments elsewhere in town have included changing settings to increase the time between button pressed and lights changing, flat-out refusing to build crossings where they would be most useful, and redesigning junctions so co-ordinated crossings are split fully in two, often doubling the time taken to cross.

At least in London there’s some semblance of pedestrian-friendliness at crossings.

Nick | 25.05.24 - 10:27 p.m. | #

I've noticed that type 3 also exists at complex junctions where a pedestrian phase could be squeezed in for people who walk quickly but absolutely wouldn't reach the minimum length standards which are probably specified out there somewhere for slower walkers.

matthieu1221 | 27.05.24 - 12:19 a.m. | #

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