please empty your brain below
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So c2c will now cover city 2 city.
Still Anon | 19.10.21 - 7:21 a.m. | #
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Tower Hamlets is now run by a different egomaniac.
MartinG | 19.10.21 - 7:39 a.m. | #
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I'm unclear how confirmed city status confers any practical benefit on a place, or for it's occupants. I presume there must be some significant advantages, given how persistent some town authorities have been in seeking elevation. However, following the truly sad murder of Sir David, the speed at which Southend has been elevated screams "populist kneejerk bauble".
Frank F | 19.10.21 - 7:57 a.m. | #
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Fascinating; thanks for the great research here, and fast work!
Phil SW11 | 19.10.21 - 7:58 a.m. | #
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Salford has a cathedral…
Kirk | 19.10.21 - 8:19 a.m. | #
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Having another city council in the south deflects attention from the complete lack anywhere near Oxford.
Sprout Eater | 19.10.21 - 8:29 a.m. | #
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Milton Keynes demonstrates that you don't need official permission to call yourself a city. Or perhaps it shows that a non-city can still have a city centre.
Malcolm of Kent | 19.10.21 - 8:41 a.m. | #
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A day trip to Southend was our only visit to the coast inbetween lockdowns in 2020. Fish and chips, and a walk to the end of the pier. Perfect.
H SE18 | 19.10.21 - 8:43 a.m. | #
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Wot FrankF said
MO | 19.10.21 - 8:45 a.m. | #
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Preston also has had a Catholic cathedral since 2014, but of the Syro-Malabar (i.e. Keralan) rite, not the Latin rite. There are other Cathedrals in England, notably the Coptic Cathedral in Stevenage.
anothertim | 19.10.21 - 8:50 a.m. | #
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Milton Keynes is a city in all but name. Please, Your Majesty, put it (us, as I lived there in 2011 and loved it) out of its misery and grant the status in 2022.
MofK - It’s ‘officially’ CMK (Central Milton Keynes) at the moment.
Interesting historical point - the bus company used to be called Milton Keynes Citybus
Stephen | 19.10.21 - 8:52 a.m. | #
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Southend was also amongst the failed 1992 applicants, as were the two other 21st century cities. I suspect you have the full list of applicants, but just in case...
Blackburn, Bolton, Brighton, Chelmsford, Colchester, Croydon, Dudley, Guildford, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Preston, Sandwell, Shrewsbury, Southend, Stockport, Sunderland, Telford, Wolverhampton
dg writes: I’d been repeatedly unsuccessful in tracking that list down. Added, thanks!
Ian | 19.10.21 - 8:53 a.m. | #
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Croydon comes across as rather desperate.
commonliner | 19.10.21 - 9:13 a.m. | #
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I had no idea of the Rochester debacle, that's quite funny.
Who‘S the local MP?
daveid76 | 19.10.21 - 9:15 a.m. | #
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Notice the number of cities created in the 19th and 20th centuries and the number of applicants for such status. I hope being a city is not going to be so commonplace as to lower the tone, so to speak, rather as the list of KBE's over the recent years has shown to be.
mikeH | 19.10.21 - 9:23 a.m. | #
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All this and no mention of Welwyn Garden City.
Jordan D | 19.10.21 - 9:26 a.m. | #
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Sunderland was the successful applicant in 1992 so shouldn’t be in the unsuccessful list.
dg writes: gone, thanks.
Anon | 19.10.21 - 9:57 a.m. | #
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Leeds may not have a cathedral, but it is the seat of a bishop, since the creation in 2014 of the Diocese of Leeds out of the former dioceses of Wakefield, Ripon and Bradford.
Jonathan Wadman | 19.10.21 - 10:12 a.m. | #
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Milton Keynes has welcoming signs saying "Welcome to the Borough and New City of Milton Keynes" so someone somewhere at the council needs to be told lol
Simon G | 19.10.21 - 10:25 a.m. | #
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1. The abbeys of Bath and Westminstef are ex-cathedrals, which accounts for those cities getting the title. (Coventry was also an ex-cathedral city for a long time, though it ultimately got its cathedral back.)
2. The 19th/20th century wave has two distinct parts. During most of the 19th century new places were becoming cities because they were getting cathedrals. Then in 1884 Southweel Minster was made a cathedral, but Southwell, according to the wisdom of the time, could not be made a city because it was not even a borough - it had no mayor or corporation. After that the title of 'city' was detached from cathedrals, and began being given to major centres of population instead - though many places, e.g. Birmingham, ended up with both, because the kind of place that is likely to attract a cathedral is also likely to become a city.
(Regarding Truro, I think the cathedral was already planned when it was made a city, though, as the first modern cathedral to be newly built rather than just promoted, it took some time to materialise.)
Andrew M | 19.10.21 - 11:01 a.m. | #
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Another fascinating piece - thanks DG.
re: cities without universities
Hereford does in fact (just) have a university. It is called NMITE and specialises in engineering and related subjects.
It was due to open in 2020, that was delayed by Covid. But it has now taken its very first small cohort of students with ambitions to expand to 5,000 eventually. [link]
Andy (N.Herts-based Herefordian) | 19.10.21 - 11:01 a.m. | #
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Up here in Ipswich the only people dead keen on city status were politicians and bureaucrats, the same people who successfully campaigned for a university on the basis that Colchester and Norwich had one so why can't we have one as well.
milliem | 19.10.21 - 11:27 a.m. | #
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Southwark has two cathedrals (Anglican and Roman Catholic). Is City status in the offing?
Ian Paton | 19.10.21 - 11:29 a.m. | #
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Milton Keynes has a Tree Cathedral
Stephen | 19.10.21 - 11:30 a.m. | #
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The tiresome eagerness of Milton Keynes to have city status bestowed upon it in a desperate attempt to gain a little national respect is the equivalent of the deeply unpopular kid in class sticking his arm up for ten minutes while repeating "Me!Me!Me!Pick me,sir! I know the answer!Oh pleeeease! Pick me! Pleeeease sir!Me!Me!Sir!Me!" while the rest of the class sigh and throw things at him.
Arlu | 19.10.21 - 11:44 a.m. | #
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The urban development near Bletchley that became Milton Keynes had been described as a "New City" since the 1960s.
Amused to see St Albans was granted city status after the Abbey was elevated from being a lowly albeit huge parish church to cathedral status (unusually, it still has its own parish) even though the Home Office sniffily dismissed it as "a fourth or fifth rate market town". They were probably right.
I struggle to understand why a large town would want to be formally recognised a city - just for the prestige? consider the cost of replacing all the signs and paperwork - but I can't really see why the likes of Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Reading and Milton Keynes (and indeed Blackburn, Guildford, Rochester, etc) should not be given that accolade if they really want it.
Andrew | 19.10.21 - 11:44 a.m. | #
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Ian Paton: City status for Southwark would make more sense than for many places in London, but I'd be sad to see it go that way, because it has been 'the Borough' since time immemorial.
Andrew M | 19.10.21 - 12:02 p.m. | #
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Interesting to compare what city status means for local governance in the UK (practically not very much that I can see) to the US where the localities largely self select their status (including "unincorporated") to create their desired local governance model (precise definition and approval status varies by state, and US census has a population based definition which overrides the local governance model).
MilesT | 19.10.21 - 1:10 p.m. | #
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Truro cathedral was not a new-build, although it was greatly enlarged to fulfil its new role, but incorporates part of the old parish church.
Westminster Abbey, like some other monasteries, became a cathedral after the Dissolution in 1540, but unlike the others it lost that status in 1556.
St Albans is far from unusual as being a cathedral with a parish - Truro and Southwark, and many other elevated parish churches, are the same. Cathedrals which were originally monasteries (Minsters) are less likely to have parishes, although in some cases like St Albans they became parish churches in the Reformation, and later became cathedrals.
Timbo | 19.10.21 - 2:07 p.m. | #
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Croydon's population is ahead of the likes of Middlesborough, Birkenhead and Reading, although behind the Bournemouth/Poole conurbation.
They're probably the most likely to keep being overlooked, given general snobbery about the place.
Nick Evans | 19.10.21 - 2:36 p.m. | #
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Interesting oddity that Ripon became a city in the 19th century in response to increased urbanisation, although Ripon itself was not becoming urbanised (if anything it was in decline.) Arguably Leeds would have been a better choice - something perhaps recognised by the CofE in 2014 when the diocese of Ripon was scrapped and replaced by that of Leeds.
Alan | 19.10.21 - 3:07 p.m. | #
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There are more sources of funding available to 'cities' than to 'towns'. One has only to look at the huge inward investment in Chelmsford since being accorded City status... although with the government's new 'Town Fund' initiative the gap is lessening (for the towns so identified).
And of course Southend deserves City (by the Sea) status as it boasts the world’s longest pleasure pier!
I can't help but thinking it is very odd that Southend is now a city, but Colchester isn't (although Colchester now benefits from inclusion in the Town Fund initiative).
Another concise and interesting link (but I may have missed it in your article, as I haven't hovered every link, if so, apologies): commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-makes-a-city
Blue Witch | Homepage | 19.10.21 - 3:20 p.m. | #
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A fascinating frolic through all things cathedral! I can't find any reference to Rochester though, which intrigues me.
dg writes: read it carefully
cau1khead | 19.10.21 - 4:16 p.m. | #
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With a couple of exceptions, the batch of 19th Century cities seem very much a product of the Indutrial Revolution and the coming of the railways: Liverpool and Manchester, for example, being two classic examples from the list.
Carllo | 19.10.21 - 4:24 p.m. | #
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Colchester couldn't become a city without losing its proud claim to be "Britain's Oldest Town"
Timbo | 19.10.21 - 5:28 p.m. | #
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Timbo, Colchester ditched that claim a few years back. The new signs at the entrances to the town, Visit Colchester's promotional material and so on now proclaim it to be 'Britain's first city'.
TAS | 19.10.21 - 9:45 p.m. | #
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Thamkyou, I looked beyond the lists, and am no longer intrigued about Rochester.
cau1khead | 24.10.21 - 10:08 a.m. | #
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In US, every place is a city. Even what we would call a village is known as a "city" if it has its own local government - as most do.
Rick | 27.10.21 - 11:33 a.m. | #
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