please empty your brain below
There’s also one at Moorgate on the SSR, which you’d think would be a recently replaced poster case...

Kirk | 17.12.18 - 7:26 a.m. | #

Maybe TfL are too cash strapped to spare the management time to work out how to mitigate the policy? Super poor though, and if the above is true then there is probably someone at TfL who has been told not to spend any more time on it and it's gnawing away at them. It would if it was me.

Al | 17.12.18 - 7:26 a.m. | #

I'm by no means a train expert, so pardon my ignorance in advance, but will ATO eventually make the 'station closed' signs redundant?

Tom | 17.12.18 - 8:15 a.m. | #

Its been like this over a week, most of the central London stations have been treated in a similar way even the major ones such as Kings Cross, Oxford Circus, Marylebone, Bond Street, Baker Street, Liverpool Street, Bank etc.

It might just be a flurry of nostalgia (like the roundels campaign a few years ago.) I like the one showing semaphores being replaced by colour light signals at Hanger Lane junction.

Probably being done cos soon TfL wont be able to show junk food ads - instead we're getting these junked railway scenes!

Rog | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 9:21 a.m. | #

Oxford Circus hasn't been 'heritage'd.
All six platforms still have poster maps.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 9:25 a.m. | #

And Bank (Central Line westbound) has been 'heritage'd contrary to your findings. It covers architecture and shows pics of Holden's buildings.

dg writes: Updated, thanks. And that's another platform without a tube map, making 22 in total.

Rog | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 9:37 a.m. | #

Blackfriars has had a heritage poster *outside of the barriers* for at least a year. Maybe that was the prototype.

AlanBG | 17.12.18 - 9:39 a.m. | #

Tourists are the main users of the wall map on platforms in central London. I know, even if you know you followed all the signs to the platform correctly, you still want the assurance that you ARE going the right way.

I never knew about the station closed sign before, I will look out for them on my next trip to London.

YDU | 17.12.18 - 9:41 a.m. | #

...do people still use them? ...or is everyone digital now and uses an app?

Grumpy Anon | 17.12.18 - 10:02 a.m. | #

Ah but ... do you ever see passengers walking the length of a platform to find a tube map? So if there isn't a map fairly close to where the passenger is standing, then as far that their experience is concerned, there's no map available!

And as for the question of whether the "last map standing" should be tube only or the tube/rail map ... you could go round in circles forever ... TfL were never going to please everybody whichever way they went.

And i say this as a fully signed up cartophile !

ADS | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 10:07 a.m. | #

Why does a vinyl heritage poster cost less than a vinyl map ?

How do you get to see the station closed sign when the sation is open ?

kev | 17.12.18 - 10:10 a.m. | #

Re: Blackfriars. Quite a few historic tube stations have had similar styles of heritage poster for many years, Arnos Grove, Hounslow West, Osterley, Piccadilly Circus, etc this new campaign is just a further adaptation.

Rog | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 10:12 a.m. | #

@kev: "Why does a vinyl heritage poster cost less than a vinyl map ?"

An individual poster probably doesn't - the cost savings are because once the posters are up, you won't have to replace them. If vinyl tube maps were still being used, they would have to be replaced every time a new map came out.

A | 17.12.18 - 10:33 a.m. | #

Most likely a green initiative, vinyl maps are hardly going to rot away in the waste tip.

Sir Biton | 17.12.18 - 10:48 a.m. | #

Fascinating findings, and quite a lot of work to find them.

Just one rather silly quibble, the "Station Closed" sign does not slow trains down, it speeds them up (from 0 mph to 5 mph).

Malcolm | 17.12.18 - 11:06 a.m. | #

"If you're the "Ah but..." type"

No, I'm more the "You did what?!" type. I've been reading for over 15 years, and even then I think that's excessive devotion to the cause. :)

Chz | 17.12.18 - 11:09 a.m. | #

I hadn't thought of this before, but now that DG's raised the issue, I'm just surprised they didn't do this years ago.

John | 17.12.18 - 11:15 a.m. | #

There's something that I find a bit affecting (almost spooky, but not quite) about those Station Closed 5 MPH signs, and I find it even more so on those occasions when I'm on a train that slowly pulls through a closed station with the sign on display.

Chris | 17.12.18 - 11:22 a.m. | #

I suppose the abolition of bus maps (even in digital form, never mind print form) was a forewarning of one area for further cost cuts ahead.

(Although: it does strike me that London has generally been very generous with displays of network maps, when compared with at least some other underground railway systems of broadly similar size and complexity: eg New York, Paris. Moscow tends not have them on platforms, but does on trains)

Dominic H | 17.12.18 - 12:15 p.m. | #

Not having any map would certainly be bad, but I don't see a lot of value in the tube-without-rail maps, which mainly serve to mislead tourists into making silly journeys like Moorgate to Highbury and Islington via Kings Cross. Of course hiding certain rail lines from a map makes it "simpler", but at the cost of undermining the map's fundamental function.

lmm | 17.12.18 - 12:32 p.m. | #

If the reasoning behind the posters is that they do not need to be replaced regularly, then regular passengers will soon get bored with them.

kev | 17.12.18 - 1:09 p.m. | #

@Kev

The "Station Closed" sign in DG's picture is credited to someone who took it in 2005, and appears to be taken from a passing train. It might also be possible for a member of the public to take one from a platform if trains can still call in the other direction?)

timbo again | 17.12.18 - 1:12 p.m. | #

Agree with Dominic H. One of the (many) good things about the Underground is the maps on the platforms, I would say the vast majority of metros I have been on don't. This is a colossal pain, particularly if the two directions are delineated by their end stations (true of most systems) and you have forgotten to check which way you are going before you go through the barrier.

John Styles | 17.12.18 - 2:08 p.m. | #

Post now updated with a message emailed from TfL's Senior Press Officer.

» They were already aware
» They are working to put tube maps up at any platforms that no longer have one
» It was "just due to scheduling"

diamond geezer | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 2:51 p.m. | #

DG, I look forward to your blog every morning. Todays entry is up there with the best of them. I will now be looking for the station closed 5 mph sign the next time I travel, shall add that to spotting the wheelchair access, architecture styles and other items you have opened my eyes too and made my journeys more interesting !

Chessington Resident | 17.12.18 - 2:59 p.m. | #

Heh. Hope you enjoyed the response from the press officer as much as I did. A real person who clearly has some understanding of the specific audience involved...

Andrew S | 17.12.18 - 3:11 p.m. | #

Senior Press Officer. Must be more than one then!

Scrumpy | 17.12.18 - 3:52 p.m. | #

So TfL obviously have your blog as a "must read". Not surprising. Well done.

| 17.12.18 - 4:02 p.m. | #

High Barnet's platform 3 boasts a vinyl tube lines map of March 2009. Apart from mild bleaching on some colours it's looking good as new. East London Line closed for major works, Heathrow mix looking uncomplicated, Ikea sponsorship banner, etc.

The reverse side of the hoarding (platform 2 of this open-air terminus station) shows a December 2018 all lines map, paper under glass.

Platform 1: can't recall now. Either an all lines or no map at all.

Pimlico Pete | 17.12.18 - 5:15 p.m. | #

Perhaps 'scheduling' means there being some knock-on effect of the new purple tunnel not happening at the very same time. Or is it just coincidence?

Maybe they had all the maps printed and ready to go, and don't want to spend more on interim vinyls while we wait.

At any rate, although the Tube map is easier to read, it is certainly more useful to the travelling public to keep the Underground and rail map out of the two.

NickW | Homepage | 17.12.18 - 5:35 p.m. | #

why don't they make their lives easy and just offer you a job of good ideas, and cock-up corrections overseer, if they can afford 100,000 for a driver DG must be worth double them

Peter Taylor | 17.12.18 - 6:17 p.m. | #

Something is going on with maps on the underground.
Met. line southbound at Pinner. Until a couple of weeks ago there was a tube/rail map in the waiting room; and a tube map on the platform. The waiting room one has now been replaced by just a tube map. Both are the "new" version with the walking links.

MikeK | 17.12.18 - 7:21 p.m. | #

I'm surprised they haven't done away with poster maps entirely and put screens on the platforms which would show the maps digitally. Changing them each time the map changes would be phenomenally easier and cheaper. They could change automatically to show just the Night Tube after midnight, or indicate lines that were closed at weekends and so on. They could even be interactive so you could enter your destination and it would show you the best route. But I suppose even today they would be prohibitively expensive to install (at least without getting sponsorship for them, but then they would probably have to agree to having adverts too).

But maybe one day!

David | 17.12.18 - 7:44 p.m. | #

Beautiful vinyl maps of Bow Road,

You have taken away a more useful load

Of tube maps that a traveller might

Allow them to find the way by day or by night.

W T McGonagall | 17.12.18 - 8:45 p.m. | #

DG on your platform visits did you get an idea of how many different heritage panels there are? Could it be that you are the first to have “collected” the full set?

If not, I look forward to a geofftech video doing just that!

Joe | 18.12.18 - 6:30 a.m. | #

I noticed these new heritage panels at Embankment station. Thanks for explaining some of the background behind them.

JonathanC | 18.12.18 - 10:05 a.m. | #

Tom (comment 3) trains can be driven manually so station closed boards will still be needed for driver information.

mclm | 18.12.18 - 11:02 a.m. | #

Berlin has also dealt with the ongoing loss of advertising to digital networks with great success, by using not only historical photos of the stations themselves, but also of the locality, as well as other historical themes for particular stations. Sensibly, Network Diagrams haven't of course, been excluded. Link below on homepage.

I don't think that mentioning the cost factor is legitimite, as most of these information posters will have a much longer life than the maps, adverts they replace.

IsarSteve | Homepage | 18.12.18 - 11:39 a.m. | #

and Munich has complete consistency with two sets of navigation boards per platform showing the network map, local bus and tram connections, timetable information and the layout of streets above all the exits from the station.

NickW | 18.12.18 - 1:55 p.m. | #

It turns out that the maps were in fact removed in error. They have started a program replacing the vinyl maps back on to the station closure boards

Chris | 29.12.18 - 3:53 p.m. | #

From a Freedom of Information request:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/changes_of_tube_maps_on_platform

Removing the map product from station closed boards equates to approx. 21k annual saving. Opting for a permanent product replacement such as the heritage posters allows us to reduce annual costs and enhancing the platform experience with interesting content.

Fair enough. But...

"Through a thorough investigation of the map information available across station platforms, we were confident that the removal of the maps in station closed board frames would not disadvantage customers as there were map products still available on the platforms. We identified:

· 216 of 270 stations already had additional maps in standard frames across the rest of the platform
· In the remaining 54 stations where the only map available is held on the station closed board, we have made the latest version of the map still available as a temporary measure while we install additional regular frames to hold the lower cost map product.

Alas they have not "made the latest version of the map still available as a temporary measure", even two months afterwards.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 07.02.19 - 10:17 a.m. | #











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