please empty your brain below
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Thank you for this interesting article! I remember moving into Croxley in 2002 and asking National Rail about the timetabled trains from the then-closed Croxley Green station. They suggested I could take a bus, until I pointed out there wasn't an equivalent bus service. At that point they then suggested that my train which would become a bus would have to become a taxi instead!
Jeffrey | 13.06.20 - 7:30 a.m. | #
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Fron a tube-challenging-nerd point of view, i can mention that on several occasions, i found myself getting out at Rickmansworth, running 30 seconds down to the bus stop to *just* make a 3-- something service, that took us past Croxley, and hear to Watford Met.. and run up the road to get there, and that's how we'd do it instead of doubling back at Moor Park. And I remember the day i spent there ten years ago trying to figure out the service patterns ...
Geofftech | 13.06.20 - 7:31 a.m. | #
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Fabulous write up.
Roger French | Homepage | 13.06.20 - 7:36 a.m. | #
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Very interesting! I think my child self in the 80s and 90s would have been amazed to discover that bus deregulation and rail privatisation have neither been successes nor ended in failure, but instead decades of mediocrity, with few people in government attempting to justify them but none willing to kill them off.
Alan | 13.06.20 - 7:50 a.m. | #
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...and of course, Arriva owned now by Deutsche Bahn.
winsleigh | 13.06.20 - 8:15 a.m. | #
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And people who don't use buses still refer to the old route numbers. Should they need to use a bus now, it's all so confusing. Is it any wonder that they turn away to other mean of transport ?
Petras409 | 13.06.20 - 8:21 a.m. | #
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The style of your first map, with thickened road edges denoting bus routes, is so evocative of the published timetable leaflets of that era.
Malcolm | 13.06.20 - 8:23 a.m. | #
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As a six-year-old, I am pretty sure that I imagined that bus routes are timeless and immutable, and the idea that they get changed would never have entered my thoughts.
Martin | 13.06.20 - 8:25 a.m. | #
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Ah, proper bus maps.
Arriva is launching a new demand responsive service in Watford soon but I'm not sure whether it will quite reach Croxley Green. If it does, we may see if there's any hidden demand in some of those now-un(der)served roads.
dg writes: Not quite as far as Croxley.
Ned | 13.06.20 - 8:35 a.m. | #
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Memories, memories! From 1946 when I was weeks old, we lived in Harpenden on the outskirts, the St Albans side. From 1957 I travelled on the 321 bus to St Albans for school, a nightmare. By the time buses reached West Common Way they were full.
The 321 route stretched from Luton to Uxbridge but some time in the 50s the service was divided into Luton to Maple Cross and Harpenden to Uxbridge (renumbered 351), so Croxley was still well served. A year or two back I looked up the Harpenden to St Albans service and it is now much diminished especially in the rush hour.
J. | 13.06.20 - 8:41 a.m. | #
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A great account of how times change. Looking at the maps, I kept wondering about the history behind the place/road names - Who was Baldwin? I guess not the PM!
Ian J | 13.06.20 - 8:45 a.m. | #
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This is the article I always wanted to read! We moved to Croxley in 1978 and I remember the launch of the Watfordwide network but not what came before it. Thanks DG!
THC | 13.06.20 - 8:53 a.m. | #
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This is the content I am here for!
Somewhere there is a piece to be written about the effects of a childhood overlooking an active bus route - my childhood bedroom overlooked the Forty Hill terminus of LT routes 231, 135 and 135a, they turned round under my window. I have retained a fascintation (my children may say obsession) for buses...
Steve | 13.06.20 - 9:21 a.m. | #
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Now that's more like it - fascinating history which I had never been able to fathom. Brilliant piece of work. (The W1 runs one journey one way from Watford to Maple Cross at 19.15 on Monday to Saturday with a daytime hourly service on Sunday from Garston currently running every 2 hours.)
dg writes: Updated, thanks.
With such a reduced service over the years if a bus is now covid 19 full what hope for the remaining passengers I wonder.
Dave B | 13.06.20 - 10:24 a.m. | #
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Really enjoyed that. As a geeky teenager growing up in Garston I was as fascinated by the developments at my end of the Watford network as you are by those at yours.
I remember when Luton & District/“Network Watford” relaunched their services and dropped the W from many of them, but the tendered services which mostly ran the same routes retained the W... which basically was customer-unfriendly madness.
The 321 remains a staple part of the journey to my parents house from the Junction.
Carlbob | Homepage | 13.06.20 - 10:32 a.m. | #
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What a wonderful set of maps, not sure that they have improved over the years.
I was travelling on these buses some twenty years before DG. Hard to believe that often our family had a weekend trip out by gong to a bus stop in New Road and getting the first bus that came along. Then getting off when it looked interesting, walking through the countryside and then, when we found another bus stop, waiting for one to come along and take us back to Croxley. Nowadays it seems we might wait several days for any bus to come along.
DGD | 13.06.20 - 11:02 a.m. | #
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A bus connection between Gatwick, Heathrow and Luton? What luxury
Anon | 13.06.20 - 11:16 a.m. | #
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One route missing from that 1986 map was the once-daily return W9, which was extended from its usual Watford town centre terminus to Rickmansworth via Whippendell Road and Baldwins Lane/Manor Way. This was primarily for Bushey and South Oxhey children travelling to and from St Joan of Arc school on Ricky High Street, which as a Catholic comp had a much wider catchment area than non-denom schools. I used to run the gauntlet of Watford Road traffic on occasion as I ran from one Two Bridges bus stop to the other to try and catch it.
THC | 13.06.20 - 12:11 p.m. | #
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And now for something completely different - and exceptionally niche, as you say DG.
That’s what I like so much about this blog, and that’s what keeps me coming back.
Sam | 13.06.20 - 12:11 p.m. | #
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Walking the London LOOP brought home how different the bus services are now within London as opposed to just outside, unless the area is served by TfL buses.
Nearby Watford at least still has the 142, so benefits from TfL frequency (and low prices)
Mikey C | 13.06.20 - 12:45 p.m. | #
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Please consider doing something similar for the 347/348 which was my only way of getting from Hampermill Lane to my nursing girlfriends at Mount Vernon.
What was the Green Line bus that linked Watford and Reigate? I'm sure I rode the whole route back in the early 70's.
dg writes: the 727 (see 1971)
Adam Cummings | 13.06.20 - 12:50 p.m. | #
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I wonder how the fares have changed over time...
ap | 13.06.20 - 1:00 p.m. | #
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1971
Green Rover: unlimited travel for a day on all London Country buses - 40p
Golden Rover: as above but including Green Line coaches - 75p
2020
Day Saver: unlimited travel on Arriva buses across the wider Watford area - £4.80
diamond geezer | Homepage | 13.06.20 - 1:12 p.m. | #
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DG, Are you sure it was the 727? The bus/coach I took didn't stop at Heathrow (I think) and definitely terminated at Reigate. Could it have been the 747 which I would have boarded in Uxbridge?
dg writes: The 727 was the only Green Line from Watford to Reigate. But the 711 started in High Wycombe, passed through Uxbridge (and central London) and terminated at Reigate.
Adam Cummings | 13.06.20 - 1:28 p.m. | #
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Many memories of taking the 724 from Uxbridge to St Albans as a teenager. The fare did always seem steep though.
JJ | 13.06.20 - 1:29 p.m. | #
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Having never used buses or trains outside of the TfL network the complexities of services & fares completely baffles me - which in turn disinclines me to venture onto them.
My loss, and maybe something I'll rectify when I get my Over-60 pass, assuming it hasn't been withdrawn by then!
Cornish Cockney | 13.06.20 - 1:34 p.m. | #
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Definitely didn't go through central London. Could it have been before 1971? I was born in 1957 and was given a fair bit of freedom so the journey could have been made in 1968, 69 or 70.
dg writes: I have 1967 and 1972 Green Line maps, and no other routes fit your criteria.
Adam Cummings | 13.06.20 - 1:45 p.m. | #
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I can remember catching the 336 at Watford Metropolitan station on summer weekend afternoons in the 1950s and early 1960s to go to Chorleywood to watch the cricket on the green and have a picnic as a family.
Also remember when I started work in Teddington in the late 1970s catching the 727 from Hampton Road in Teddington to go back to Watford to see my family. Was amazed that I could do the whole journey on one coach and it even went via Heathrow which was useful when going on holiday.
Tones | 13.06.20 - 2:56 p.m. | #
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Do an update after Covid. It won’t take long l fear.
Kim | 13.06.20 - 6:50 p.m. | #
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My 1984 London Country timetable book has the 733 shown as calling at Croxley Green Station. It has a roundel described as meaning "Adjoining LT station" rather than the BR crowsfoot which would be correct for the station with that name, but one way or other it served the area for a while at least! It was (briefly) a useful route, providing various new links some of which reappeared in Boris's vague proposals for express bus routes when he was Mayor. The multitude of county boundaries in this area really doesn't help with any bus service that needs a bit of public funding.
dg writes: Updated, thanks.
Andrew S | 13.06.20 - 9:41 p.m. | #
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I too lived on the route of a London Country bus, the 398 and school journeys of the 332.
I am slightly older than you and remember the advent of London Country. I think it was around that time the 398A, 398B and 398C disappeared (I have no idea where they went).
Looks like there are a few buses a day now, Red Rose 71 and 73
John Styles | 14.06.20 - 12:07 a.m. | #
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Do you know what the (single) fare between Watford/Croxley and Central London by tube would have been in 1971.
The single cash fare between Croxley and either Baker Street and/or Liverpool Street is now £7.40!
Alex Halpern | 14.06.20 - 7:21 p.m. | #
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June 13th was the 50th anniversary of major changes to the red London Transport buses that served Watford. Crew operated double decker route 142 was converted to one person single decker operation and shortened to terminate at Edgware (Colindale in the peaks) instead of Kilburn Park. Crew operated double decker route 158 was replaced by new one person operated route 182 to Harrow and Wembley. Saturday only route 292A to Edgwsre and Borehamwood was also withdrawn.
Nick | 14.06.20 - 9:21 p.m. | #
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Very interesting. The 724/727 Green line coaches gave an excellent service every half hour Heathrow - Uxbridge - Denham - Ricky - Watford - St Albans from early 1970s until the M25 opened. The 727 was replaced by something faster via the motorway (which didn't last too long). A special feature, otherwise rare for London Country buses in 1970s was a proper sense of pride in operating the services. The coaches were clean and ran to time, something rare with the buses.
For a short while in early 1980s the W4 route was extended to Uxbridge - an unexpected but welcome bit of enterprise but didn't last long.
Good to have a reminder of the Saturdays only Leyland National that ran Staines - Watford for a short while about 1992. The operator did make an effort - delivered a leaflet with details of times and fare to most houses in Denham. However a old bus running every three hours was never going to attract much custom.
It is sad to see the deterioration of bus services around Watford - a muddled mess of too many operators, confusing routes - no wonder few use them.
I'm lucky to live just down the road in Denham, where Carousel, London Buses and Arriva's 724 give a respectable service which has increased use. Frequencies are not much less than found 50 years ago - It can be done!
Malcolm Dymott | 16.06.20 - 9:52 a.m. | #
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