please empty your brain below
Hmmm

The main conclusion to draw from this study is that "nasty events are rare, and we didn't conduct a large enough study to see whether nasty events happen more often".

Max Roberts | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 8:46 a.m. | #

Oh c'mon DG get with the programme.

This is an essential part of Boris's chance to show that he is fit to hold the office of mayor.

The basic thesis is: PROBLEM - there are too many pedestrians in London, who are a menace to people innocently driving their cars around town and who just generally clutter up the pavements and make a nuisance of themselves; why can't they get a four-wheel drive anyway?;

THESIS - with a shorter green man: more pedestrians will get run over while trying to cross the road; thereby alleviating and perhaps even, in extermis, resolving, the problem. After all, if the experiment is sufficiently successful, there may be no need to even bother pretending to invest in public transport as well.

RESULT - fewer pedestrians, more space for cars, decent social hierarchy and priority restored. London now looks and feels more like Birmingham (well, like Birmingham before the recent attempts to make that car-tendered car-trussed city more human-friendly: but hey at least we don't have the accent) Hurrah for Boris!

Venichka | 08.10.09 - 8:52 a.m. | #

Mind you, when faced with an old lady three quarters of the way across the road, just about every car will stop even if the light is green for them. And quite a few drivers merrily go across red lights even when somebody is crossing.

Debster | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 9:11 a.m. | #

I'm one of those troublesome slow disabled types on crutches. I'm also a Wandsworth resident who lives by a main road with a set of traffic lights a little way along, which I used to use to get across to the local shops on the other side. A while back, I certainly noticed a shortening of the crossing time. So my solution is now to cross the road directly in front of my block of flats, not using the lights. I suppose I might be taking my life in my hands sometimes, but even on this busy road all drivers seem to stop for a lumbering crutches user. Perversely, it gives me a feeling of great power. My take on this is that if Boris is once again going to put cars ahead of pedestrians, I'm bloody well going to use my impairment to keep those drivers waiting for me, and thus make them lose probably more than the few extra seconds they would have gained at the All New Speedier Traffic Lights.

An Unreliable Witness | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 9:23 a.m. | #

"London's pedestrians probably wouldn't notice the additional inconvenience" I reckon we are just used to things not working properly, and we are just resigned to cr@p provision, both for pedestrians and cycles. The one I really noticed shorten some time back is the crossing at Hyde Park Corner by Grosvenor Place - I wonder if there was anyone surveying the marooned pedestrians in the middle of the traffic flow?

Curiously in China they often have countdown timers for both traffic and pedestrians. But, without about 8 police on duty at each crossing, nobody takes much notice of any colour.

Ham | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 9:25 a.m. | #

I liked the "Summary prepared by", "Reviewed by" and "Cleared by" at the end of the document. I think Boris, with his love of Latin, ought to take things a stage further, and adopt the Vatican's "Imprimi potest", "Nihil obstat" and "Imprimatur".

Baldassaro | 08.10.09 - 9:39 a.m. | #

I seem to recall that it was Ken who had the phases lengthened. I presume we are now just returning to the same phasing we had pre-Ken.

Bina | 08.10.09 - 10:10 a.m. | #

So London's pedestrians, just like its cyclists, will be divided into the quick and the dead...

disgruntled | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 10:41 a.m. | #

I like the Continental model, where basically you step out in front of the cars whatever, and they then aim to swerve to miss you.

JonnyB | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 11:21 a.m. | #

I'm afraid that, as a crutches and wheelchair user, I don't like the new timings. I would not be able to make it across many roads in time and although on crutches people do see you, in a wheelchair they don't. Worse, I actually slow down as I reach the other side, if there is a steep slope to get back onto the pavement - and drivers often assume I'll whizz away once I reach the other side and start going too early. To be honest it is already bad enough with impatient drivers overtaking stopped traffic at zebras (and nearly wiping me out) - I don't want to see that at traffic lights when the car in front can't move until the low-height wheelie person (that the car behind can't see) has gone.

I would add that I'm a driver too and understand the frustration of traffic jams, delays and red lights. But it's a safety issue unfortunately.

(Just a quick note, these days "the disabled" is thought by many to be inappropriate - we are people first, not arbitrary broken items. "Disabled people" would be fine. Just mentioning it in case it offends someone!

Flash Bristow | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 11:25 a.m. | #

Say what you like, its traffic lights themselves that are the problem. Near where I live, there is always a major tailback on the main road into Catford which is where a lot of traffic heads on its way to the A25. There are three sets of lights within 25 metres - and they are badly phased.

The first set is a stand-alone set. The second set, some 10 metres further along the road, is on one end of a long pedestrian crossing "island", cordoned off from the road with barriers. At the other end of the "island" is THIRD set of lights, which is always out of synch with the second set. Meaning that traffic is invariably forced to stop three times within 25 yards of road. The morning tailbacks are horrendous - and yet TfL refuse point blank to remove any of the three sets of lights or even re-phase them. Idiots.

Capability Bowes | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 11:34 a.m. | #

Nicely put Venichka!

Isn't that the Oxford Circus set you've pictured DG, where they're about to increase the pedestrian crossing time...and does Boris know about this?

NiC | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 12:12 p.m. | #

I miss the flashing green man, he made sense. The blackout period is a zone of uncertainty.

Seems an education campaign would be a better use of the money than anything else.

Also, the green man is a suggestion, as is the red. Neither are legaly binding, nor are they instructions. Liberty you see - there were big rows about this in the 60s when they wanted to introduce controlled crossing areas where you can only use a crossing. Lots of streets use hidious ugly railings to achieve the same.

jamesup | 08.10.09 - 12:40 p.m. | #

Indeed Capability - round here when the traffic lights are out of order there is no traffic jam and people stop to let pedestrians cross as needed. As opposed to them still crossing when they fancy but pressing the button and the traffic stops for ages when there is nobody there. And quite often the lights are phased so that only 3 cars at a time get through. Not much joy in the rush hour.

Debster | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 2:13 p.m. | #

But Debster, the purpose of traffic lights is not to increase traffic flow. Traffic engineers are well aware that traffic flows better without traffic lights. The purpose of traffic lights is to reduce casualties. The idea is to reduce the number of "nasty events" (see Max's comment at the start). For example it is well known that zebra crossings do not reduce pedestrian casualties - they remain about the same if they are removed. However fewer people cross the road. What zebra crossings do is increase mobility for pedestrians. In other words, without the zebra crossing many people are too frightened to cross the road in the first place.

The other thing to consider is that as a general rule traffic fills the roadspace available for it. So increasing the time for motorists at junctions will simply mean that a few more people will decide that it is easier to make their journey by car. This is what happens in Purley where the road intersection is so unfriendly for pedestrians it makes the walk to and from the station extremely unpleasant - so people get their partners to drive them there.

Pedantic of Purley | 08.10.09 - 3:42 p.m. | #

"the purpose of traffic lights is not to increase traffic flow"

It will if BoJo gets his way. What him and his cronies seem to forget is that cities are for people rather than cars.

Capability Bowes | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 4:13 p.m. | #

I hadn't even realised the flashing green man had gone!! Shows how much attention I pay! What did surprise me is that when pedestrians can cross ALL the traffic in ALL directions is stopped. That does seem to be a waste of time, unless you're a pedestrian who wants to cross on a diagonal!

In America you can barely get 3 paces across the road before it starts flashing at you! And then while you're trying to cross (usually a 5 lane road), cars are passing in front and behind you as you move out of their lane! Now there you really take your life in your hands. And my kids have to face it daily on their way to school!

CornishCockney | 08.10.09 - 6:34 p.m. | #

There is an interesting experiment going on right now about switching traffic lights off: http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?...asp?
PageID=1556

Ham | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 6:47 p.m. | #

Depends where in America you are. Here in the South, they have 'countdown' times on the green (white) man showing you how many safe seconds you've got left to cross. s'kinda cool.

geofftech | Homepage | 08.10.09 - 8:06 p.m. | #

would it not have been cheaper to just educate people about what the different signals mean... how hard would it be to put a sign on the signal column stating "start to cross on green"... "finishing crossing on flash"... "don't start crossing on flash or red"...

if traffic in central london ever flows smoothly again (assuming it once did) i will be amazed...

also - with westminster's programme of removing guard railing soon us pedestrians won't be caged in and be free to roam the streets where we like... combined with the blanket 20mph speed limit will be able to roam free and will have won the battle over the car...

of course - if motor vehicles don't get cleaner real soon... BoJo will also have the problem of not meeting EU air quality targets and we'll all be paying for those fines (through reduced investment in public transport and higher fares)... if only there was a charge on motor vehicles to discourage people from driving into the worst affected areas... who knows what the future holds...

Sy | 08.10.09 - 8:26 p.m. | #

In the Toronto downtown core we have countdown timers at the pedestrian crosswalks. They're helpful to pedestrians, but also to drivers. A quick glance at the parallell pedestrian crossing countdown timer when approaching an intersection gives a good idea of how soon the red will be coming. It leads to fewer cars trapped in the intersections on the reds.

Oliver | 08.10.09 - 11:31 p.m. | #

As an aside,I'm not a fan of the Puffin crossings. To look for the red/green man on yourside of the road you are crossing just seems so alien and confusing.

Brendan | 09.10.09 - 9:11 a.m. | #

Since I've been crossing roads in London I've stopped taking any notice of the green man and looked at the traffic lights instead. If it's still red I'll start to cross - I don't reckon that anyone, even in London, is going to deliberately run me over from a standing start. This new habit came about because I noticed that the green man in London is already illuminated far more briefly than the ones I was used to in the sticks, compared to the time the traffic is actually stopped. Surely more people will now notice this and the reforms will be counter-productive?

Sarah | Homepage | 09.10.09 - 1:14 p.m. | #

I've seen countdown timers on the lights in Copenhagen, but these were the time before the green man next comes on, rather than time before it goes off. I think it worked pretty well. Why bother to try and run accross in a small gap if the lights are going to change in 10 seconds anyway?

Jon Combe | 09.10.09 - 2:04 p.m. | #

I don't think the flashing green man has disappeared - he only appears at Pelican crossings, not at pedestrian crossings at junctions.

The TfL study only covers 'signalled junctions' - ie not Pelican crossings, where green men continue to flash happily away. (see also this bit of the Highway Code)

Glasgow has a busy junction with a pedestrian crossing where there's a 30 second countdown to the green man, the opposite of what seems to be proposed here in London.

martin | Homepage | 09.10.09 - 6:10 p.m. | #

Agreed, martin. First paragraph now tweaked so that pelicans don't get a look in.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.10.09 - 7:15 p.m. | #

About a year ago I wrote to TFL asking them to improve safety at a cycle crossing I use, where I frequently see near misses. Safety could be easily improved by adding a few more seconds between the red light for traffic and the green light for cyclists. The response suggested that although this might improve safety, it would not be looked upon kindly by the mayor because of the effect on the road traffic.

Deptford Dame | Homepage | 12.10.09 - 3:15 p.m. | #

Fasinating! Such detail about just crossing a road.

Greg Watts | Homepage | 18.10.09 - 10:47 a.m. | #











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