please empty your brain below
" unable to remember quite which way the bus went" - the westbound buses make a complete loop around Oakfield Rd/Mountview Rd/Stapleton Hall Rd/Oakfield Rd again, and both eastbound and westbound services stop at Stroud Green & Harringay Library, confusing to non-locals.
Excellent observations as ever dg.

Gordon | 24.07.17 - 7:21 a.m. | #

Seriously? A hotel in Crouch End? I suppose we should be grateful they've not demolished a superior bit of architecture, but Crouch End is hardly well-connected. At least by inside-zone-3 standards.

Chz | 24.07.17 - 7:40 a.m. | #

I'd hazard a guess that the nun alighting atop Mount View Rd may have been heading for St Peter-in-Chains RC church a few hundred metres away, where my eldest sister was married in 1970.

Frank F | 24.07.17 - 7:43 a.m. | #

DG!

I have said to you, in the past, to take the W5, and as you were, at one point on the route, less than a minute's walk from me, you really should have let me know, and I'd have put the kettle on...

ps

and one more attempt to have you read my 'morsels' in the post...

cheers!

PJS | 24.07.17 - 8:03 a.m. | #

Let's hope TfL pucks up on the jobsworth driver and those blasted traffic lights. They may not be directly responible for either but have lots of influence.

100andthirty | 24.07.17 - 8:33 a.m. | #

Ooh, I was in Archway and Harringay on Saturday, but alas did not travel between the two on the W5.

If anyone finds themselves hungry in Harringay they could do a lot worse than visit Gökyüzü.

If anyone finds themselves thirsty in Harringay they could do a lot worse than visit The Salisbury, an architectural gem of a pub,that when I first knew it was in less than splendid condition. It has been sympathetically restored since and is worth a visit for the interiors alone.

Lorenzo | 24.07.17 - 8:43 a.m. | #

How useful this bus route would have been when I was at school in Crouch End as the route travels past the end of the road where I lived. The photos in today's blog brought back memories of the long walks up and down Ferme Park Road and Crouch Hill.

Sara | 24.07.17 - 9:02 a.m. | #

The W5 terminates round the back of the latter, ideal not just for groceries but so that the driver can dash off to use 'the facilities' at a convenience TfL hasn't had to pay for.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Providing facilities for drivers at termini is now a big deal and it is TfL's responsibility not the that of bus company. If they are the "official" convenience for that terminus then my guess is that either there is some formal understanding between Sainsbury's and TfL or a (relatively small) sum of money has been agreed between the two so that bus drivers can assured of being able to use the facilities.

Pedantic of Purley | 24.07.17 - 9:16 a.m. | #

How grimly familiar is:

"fractionally too late for one shopper who proceeds to tap on the glass for admission. Our jobsworth driver's having none of it and pulls away, only to get stuck behind a parking car while the abandoned passenger glares in vain through the window"

along with the bus drivers who not only ensure they are not going too fast when approaching traffic lights such they would have to brake sharply, but actively slow down long before a junction and seemingly wait for the lights to go red. Some of us have timetabled trains to catch at the station on the other side!!!!

David | 24.07.17 - 9:26 a.m. | #

If the driver is following their timetable, can't really complain.

TfL lists of bus complaints make for interesting reading, if they are still published online.

John | 24.07.17 - 9:51 a.m. | #

I used to take this route to get to the baseball field very often when living in Archway. Very relaxing coming home on this route at night.

Don't remind me about the awful traffic on Endymion Road though!

Jacques | 24.07.17 - 9:57 a.m. | #

Vivid description of the journey.
Locals also know that if traveling eastbound to any of the small shops on Green Lanes, it may be quicker to get off the bus at the library, cross the pedestrian railway bridge by Harringay station and walk Burgoyne Road, one of the rungs of the 'ladder'.

Bob L-S | 24.07.17 - 10:28 a.m. | #

The W5 live route map is interesting. A couple of minutes ago of the 7 buses out, 2 were between Archway and Crouch End, the other 5 in the Harringay half. Doesn't look a very even service!
That live map also appears to show your imaginary bus stops. Though without travelling the route, I can't confirm if the yellow dots are regular stopping points.

ap | 24.07.17 - 10:31 a.m. | #

When I walked the route, there were a couple of occasions when W5s went past unexpectedly close together... in both directions. I wouldn't have expected such bunching on a short route.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 24.07.17 - 10:35 a.m. | #

Getting out of 'Harringay Superstores' can be a nightmare too, some Saturday afternoons it can take over 20 minutes to get from the stand to the lights.

The lights at the other end to get onto Highgate Hill towards Archway are a pain as well.

The fact that 25% was taken up with one set of lights shows why there is bunching, sometimes the lights in Green Lanes cause random queues (I think the pedestrian phase only operates if the button is pressed), so sometimes several vehicles can turn left, sometimes none at all.

Still anon | 24.07.17 - 11:00 a.m. | #

The W5 is an interesting route to ride but it is notoriously unreliable. DG's post and other later comments explain why the route is prone to problems. Also don't ride it at times when the schools are starting or finishing. Local traffic is appalling because so many kids are transported by car. Given where it runs it has featured in Mayor's Questions about reliability just as the W3, which runs close to part of the W5, also features because of overcrowding and unreliability. The locals at Crouch End and Highgate know how to work the political process.

PC | 24.07.17 - 11:21 a.m. | #

In the old gyratory system it had two stops outside Archway station. Departed from one side, and just around the corner the first stop - officially. But it never bothered to stop there or pick up anyone - including my old naive self.

Greg S | 24.07.17 - 11:47 a.m. | #

Done a bit more digging by looking at other live bus route map details.

The circles - or sometimes yellow dots - in the hail and ride sections do appear to agree with the spots I know where hail and ride buses regularly stop.

ap | 24.07.17 - 12:17 p.m. | #

This is of course, the second incarnation of the route number W5 - and in the same area too. An earlier Saturdays only service ran between Finsbury Park Station and Turnpike Lane Station covering the southern end of the W3, which was withdrawn on Saturdays (the northern part of the route was covered by a W6).

This route wasn't successful and only ran from September 1968 until March 1969. Seen here at South Terrace, Ally Pally. https://flic.kr/p/X1NcFP

IsarSteve | 24.07.17 - 12:21 p.m. | #

Lovely route, but definitely, definitely, one to avoid at school chucking-out time - not just because of the traffic, but to avoid what seems like an entire school's worth of kids trying to squeeze themselves onto one tiny bus. And I've probably seen more road rage (sometimes progressing to a full-blown punch-up) at the exit from Harringay Sainsbury's than anywhere else in the country. It's usually better to get on/off the bus at Endymion Road.

Leo | 24.07.17 - 12:58 p.m. | #

As there is no gyratory anymore at Archway, buses have a new place to take a U-turn. This was confusing for some drivers at the beginning.

An example: https://youtu.be/PiADKomWj4o

Greg S | 24.07.17 - 2:21 p.m. | #

Jobsworth bus drivers really tick me off.
There is absolutely no need for such behaviour unless they're checking their mirrors before pulling out and have genuinely not seen the unlucky passenger - which I've noticed does occasionally happen.

Saying that, he did redeem himself a bit later by letting people off early!

Every time I'm stuck on a bus in a traffic jam (or encounter a jobsworth driver, who then sits in a queue ignoring the fact they could have let me on if they wanted!) I lament the loss of the Routemasters - and by extension, the new Boris Buses which never have their platform doors open either, thus nulling and voiding their entire raison d'etre as far as I'm concerned!!

Rant over!

Cornish Cockney | 24.07.17 - 2:36 p.m. | #

We played a great game on holiday in Rome - Nun Watch!

How many nuns can you spot? It's fun for all the family!

James Scantlebury | 24.07.17 - 3:59 p.m. | #

Given the W5 is a Hail and Ride service, surely the jobsworth driver could have allowed the late potential passenger aboard whilst in standstill traffic.

W5 Bus Route Superfan | 24.07.17 - 4:34 p.m. | #

dg writes: This comment has been moved to the relevant post.

Andrew | 24.07.17 - 5:12 p.m. | #

Thank you for the W5 report. This covers my stamping ground, living in Highgate, shopping at Archway and Crouch End. I went to Hornsey College of Art and drove from Highgate to South Tottenham without hitting a traffic signal using part of this bus route. Historically, back in the late 60's or early 70's Route C2 started at the Archway, it was one of the first minibus services run by London Transport using Fort Transit mini buses. Of course part of the W5 route would have been served by the Alexandra Palace branch line if it had been incorporated into the Northern Line instead of abandoned and becoming in part a parkland walkway. Nice to see buses still offer local service to this part of London.

BRIAN BERKE | 24.07.17 - 7:19 p.m. | #

The thing about letting on passengers is interesting, note that all buses have CCTV fitted, if a driver opens doors whilst waiting at lights, and the passenger trips, its the drivers fault.

Still anon | 24.07.17 - 8:51 p.m. | #

@ap: Oddly enough, if you look at other bus routes with Hail & Ride sections, they aren't always marked on that website. Have a look at bus E6, which has a Hail & Ride section at the southern end of the route.

straphan | 25.07.17 - 2:53 p.m. | #











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