please empty your brain below
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It already takes two hours or more to get from one side of London to the other. It reminds me of a wonderful book called You Have Been Warned, which was published back in pre-war days, with loads of motoring advice, including several destinations that were an easy days run from Hyde Park Corner. These included Oxford, Brighton and Aldgate East.
Debster | 18.04.08 - 8:16 a.m. | #
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We got rid of our car when the Congestion Zone was extended and don't miss it a bit. My Oyster Card is my new best friend and if we need to get out of London at the weekends we hire a car (as usually the trains aren't working due to engineering work). If the speed limit is reduced to 20 mph I imagine that many bus drivers would have a problem keeping their speed down - give them a clear road and they're playing the "how many passengers can I topple over?" game
dianne | 18.04.08 - 8:32 a.m. | #
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Speed-sensitive traffic lights have been adopted in many counries in Continental Europe and allow traffic to flow more effectively at sensible speeds - any speeding results in a more frustrating journey facing repreated red lights, the thre is an incentive to stick to the limit to make better overall progress.
Novaelius | 18.04.08 - 9:00 a.m. | #
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There's always bike travel 
It's a funny thng that we don't seem to view the piloting of a multiple tonne lump of metal in a lethal manner in the same light as other activities potentially dangerous to Health & Safety.
As part of a general acknowledgement of the danger and significance of speed, I'm all in favour of a reduction to 20mph. Even though as a motorist I confess to flagrant disregard for the current speed limit on occasion.
Ham | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 10:02 a.m. | #
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There is a zebra crossing on the Westferry Road in docklands right by Canary Wharf where you often take your life in your hands if you want to cross the road.
It seems that motorists prefer to treat the road as a racetrack, and not as the "narrow road in a largely residential area" that it is.
Ian Mansfield | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 10:03 a.m. | #
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A better solution would be to limit the number of male under 30s allowed in a car to 2.
It used to be 17 and 18 year old males who drove like idiots. They now seem to be older - possibly because £3K a year for third party insurance puts many youngsters off driving until they are in their 20s.
Blue Witch | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 10:07 a.m. | #
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Speed sensitive traffic lights were invented here ... I think the first ones ever were installed in Slough (one of its two claims to fame, and it doesn't like to talk about the other one, Mr. Betjeman you know who you are). Obviously though, motorists forced to spend longer than was absolutely necessary in Slough revolted, and they got rid of them.
Bring back the man with the flag, that's what I say.
disgruntled commuter | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 10:53 a.m. | #
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What about that zebra crossing outside Holborn tube station? That place is a nightmare to cross, and this is with city boys in their Mercedes, not boy racers in their souped-up 1980s Ford Escorts.
The A10 through Cheshunt seems to be a favourite place for boy racers. No-one ever dares cross the road there without the use of a footbridge. St. Albans and Welwyn Garden City, however, seem to be thankfully free of them. Perhaps a reflection of the general populace of these places?
Nevertheless, here in the suburbs, a car is a bit more of a necessity (not many places in Hertfordshire accept Oyster cards - yet). However, even here, you've got a perfectly decent bus service to take you to the shops and the station, so you can live perfectly well without one unless you happen to live out in the countryside.
Andrewh | 18.04.08 - 11:04 a.m. | #
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Andrewh - Holborn tube station junction has already been made a crossroads again without those death-inducing filtre lanes. Safety is improving rapidly as I post.
Richard | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 11:45 a.m. | #
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BW - what about mums driving their sons to school? They might well have more than two under 30s in the car ... personally I say ban men drivers as they cause nearly all the big accidents. Ladies just reverse into lamp posts.
Debster | 18.04.08 - 11:59 a.m. | #
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Yeah, ban them too Debster. They should be walking anyway.
Blue Witch | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 12:03 p.m. | #
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To enforce a 20mph limit will be nigh on impossible. Virtually no-one keeps to the 30mph limit already, not even police (as they rush to the local shops for lunch).
How would it be policed? A camera on every street corner, maybe? Microchips in every car? Question is, though, at what cost? To save how many lives? Cost benefit analysis?
Just give it 15 or 20 years; as we reach peak oil and production slows, petrol will eventually reach £10 per litre (before being used by emergency vehicles only) and thus there will be less and less cars on the road anyway. The three-carriage 8.13 from White Hart Lane might be a little more crowded, though.
Battersea Pig | 18.04.08 - 12:18 p.m. | #
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On a recent visit to Tasmania i enjoyed driving for the first time in about 30 years- REASON ? ENGLAND 50 million people TASMmania (approx same size England ) Less than half a million !!!!!
Colin in Thailand | 18.04.08 - 12:30 p.m. | #
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We've had a 20mph speed limit on back roads here for a few months now. Only sensible really considering that most of the back roads in Portsmouth were built century before last & now have cars parked both sides.
Consequently there's just about room for a car, going one way, & a bicycle. Believe me, I know, & am in fear of having my handlebars 'tipped' by their door mirrors every time!
If it's a van then there's only just room for that. Which is where, as in times of longer queues, the 'get off & push' option comes in so handy.
You don't need a car to get around London - I lived there for a couple of years, when the traffic was lighter, & know. w00t! indeed for Oystercards.
Come to think of it, you don't need a car to get around Portsmouth either - it's only 4 miles by 2 miles at the most. You could walk the length of the place in an hour (by far the fastest option,after a push bike, during rush hour), & not work up a sweat cos Portsea island's all flat!
Bronchitikat | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 1:13 p.m. | #
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Regarding Ian's comment on Westferry Rd, he's not just talking about the boy racers - bus drivers going down onto the Isle of Dogs are *insane* - I'm convinced they're all from the Stirling Moss school of formula 1 racedriving. Getting on a bus going south from Canary Wharf can be a hair-raising experience (if I had any, of course)
The Londoneer | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 1:56 p.m. | #
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I love hearing the two gear changes up and then a gear change down as the local heroes travel between the intersection and a slight bend in the road outside my house - a distance of 80 metres.
Even better is the sound I hear once a year as some halfwit manages not to see the bend in time on an icy day and plants himself in amongst the trees.
I say do away with roads in urban areas - make them shared space, then the doof doof brigade can swerve all over the place, taking out the crowd of people who insist standing out front of the pub opposite smoking, even though the pub in question has a smoking shelter in a very nice garden out the back.
This I ask in the interests of making Fridat nights even more fun.......
Simon | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 2:03 p.m. | #
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May i recommend 'spike strips'. Super Glue in car locks works remarkable well too. Of course these activities may well be criminal-in which case expect a free holiday to Barbados-or free tickets to a football game.
Mr Meldrew | 18.04.08 - 2:48 p.m. | #
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The real problem lies in the fact that most of the drivers on the road today are selfish, jumping red lights, going the wrong side of keep left signs, blocking junctions, obstructing Bus stops, etc etc etc, its a whole culture of me me me, most of these people will not even join a traffic queue for a left or right turn but will roar up the outside and force their way into a line of traffic, they seem to think they have a right to drive badly, its a fact that anyone can drive fast, but not many can drive safely, driving at twenty miles an hour on back roads is no great deal, you may arrive at your destination a few minutes later but at least you probably havent killed someone, and will most likely feel a lot more relaxed.
fishislandskin | 18.04.08 - 3:07 p.m. | #
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When I'm cycling into work across London these 3-second speeders make you laugh and make you scared at the same time. They'll speed past you on your bike, threatening your life & limb and then a few seconds later you'll catch them up at the lights. If they have their windows down I try to think of a witty and memorable comment which might make them stop doing it in future, but usually I just end up swearing at them childishly. They might not mind wrapping themselves around a lampost at high speed, but how are they going feel when they kill a kid or a granny etc... People talk about it like its funny and think you are a miserable git if you complain about it, but they do have a lethal weapon in their hands. What if I was to run out into the street swinging a machete around and just 'accidentally' happened to chop someone's arm off? How is speeding through a city so different?
Zoe | 18.04.08 - 3:16 p.m. | #
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Im right with you on this one Zoe.
fishislandskin | 18.04.08 - 3:27 p.m. | #
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But MOST importantly, what car did you have DG?
Albert | 18.04.08 - 3:36 p.m. | #
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Zoe, I have to say that I agree with you. If we can eliminate the joyriders throughout London (and I'm thinking also of the A10/Great Cambridge Road through Enfield and Hertfordshire here), then the roads would be an awful lot safer.
Andrewh | 18.04.08 - 4:11 p.m. | #
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I remember the couple in our area, who were infamous for their speedy way of driving.
Last year I heard that their child was knocked down and killed, by a speeding driver.
I wanted to think serves you right, but I only felt deep saddness.
Michael | 18.04.08 - 5:49 p.m. | #
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@Zoe:
>comment which might make them stop doing it in future
When my girlfriend pulls up alongside she simply asks them if they would have driven so close to her if it was their mother/daughter/wife on the bike. From initally being on the defensive they are then forced to confront their behavious.
I, on the other hand, rely on a glare to get my message across...
Wayne | 18.04.08 - 6:38 p.m. | #
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I get to 'race' around legally even on the wrong side of the road, I rarely tip over 30mph because some pillock will either pull out or walk out in ront of you.
And 20mph limit? That's it, spoil the only fun I have getting prats cut out of their souped up cars. How am I going to get a few decent injuries if the speed is that slow?
Tom Reynolds | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 8:01 p.m. | #
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I was waiting to cross at a crossing and knew the lights were changing. I would have crossed but I saw a red performance car approaching at speed.
Subconsciously, I thought, wanker's going to jump the lights.
Instead, it stopped on a sixpence, smoothly, not wishing to jump the amber light (which means 'stop').
I then realised that it was, of course, a 'Special' police car, and its driver has done numerous courses on handling, hazard anticipation and so on.
Gert | Homepage | 18.04.08 - 9:06 p.m. | #
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Ooh, and I thought it was only railway related posts that generated 20+ comments - it appears the DG Reader Network likes transport generally
Novaelius | 18.04.08 - 10:51 p.m. | #
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Actually, I've just remembered what would be useful.
Ham | Homepage | 19.04.08 - 9:29 a.m. | #
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ive been cycling more now and my trusty mountain bike gets me from london bridge station to bow road quicker thatn i can do the journey by tube
steve | Homepage | 19.04.08 - 7:39 p.m. | #
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As a considerate under-30 male driver (yes, we do exist) I too feel intimidated by louts in modified cars. To be fair, the aggressive overtaking and hand gestures are probably not helped by seeing the word 'Diesel' on my rear bumper, but still...
Remember, though, that speeding is a relatively minor cause of road deaths - the main one is simple lack of attention.
simon | 20.04.08 - 8:53 p.m. | #
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