please empty your brain below
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I think there is pretty much two solutions to this.
Either adopt the Green Party policy of one-zone flat fare. Done in NYC, so there's plenty of data.
Or adopt a more simple fare zone structure. Zone 1 and 2 for central and inner London. Zone 3 and 4 for Outer London. Zone 5 for everything outside Greater London.
Abdullah | 17.04.21 - 7:36 a.m. | #
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Greenwich borough stretches into zone 2. Both Greenwich and North Greenwich stations are in zones 2 and 3.
snurk | 17.04.21 - 7:53 a.m. | #
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Hi DG, I don’t think I understand the list. Canning Town, Abbey Road, West Ham Stratford High Street and Stratford are all in Newham and all in zone 2/3.
froggitt | 17.04.21 - 8:00 a.m. | #
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A strange anomaly. The post starts off by repeating the fact that zones don't exist, they are just finite sets of stations. Then up comes some data and maps which seem to claim some allocation of occupied neighbourhoods to zones. Yes, very pretty maps. And also some fascinating facts about how the zones started. But all based on fantasy.
(I think the first implementation of zones also affected buses)
Malcolm of Kent | 17.04.21 - 8:16 a.m. | #
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My list of boroughs ignores small patches of intruding zones. It’s not meant as a pedantic overview.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 17.04.21 - 8:50 a.m. | #
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Assuming it is correct, there is an interesting Google map of the TfL Fare Zones here.
This appears to show National Rail Zones W, but not 7, 8, 9 or G.
dg writes: The map makes a decent attempt to put stations in the correct zones. But it is not ‘correct’.
strawbrick | 17.04.21 - 8:53 a.m. | #
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Never realised so much of Islington and Hackney were in “zone 3”.
David | 17.04.21 - 9:01 a.m. | #
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Whether someone is in a ‘lucky” area would also depend on the level of service from the local station. To take your example of Redbridge, if the Central line fails, then your only alternative is to walk/bus to Ilford, adding at least 15 minutes to your journey. At Barking, however, still in zone 4, if the District/Ham City fail, you still have C2C/ Goblin from the same station as alternatives.
Andrew Rodger | 17.04.21 - 9:25 a.m. | #
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A very interesting and detailed analysis. Distance is part of the equation when looking at fares but service frequency and journey time also need to be considered.
Hadders | 17.04.21 - 9:52 a.m. | #
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I recall vividly in the 80s the cumulative hours spent trudging the extra few steps to the New Park Road stop at the top of Brixton Hill to avail myself of the boundary of two fare zones - the start of Zone 2 if memory serves.
cau1khead | 17.04.21 - 10:24 a.m. | #
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When zones were first introduced in the 1980s they were zones 1, 2, 3a, 3b and 3c. The boundaries between zones 1/2 and 2/3a were presumably reasonably detailed as they were boundaries for bus fares. A flat fare applied to buses across zones 3a, 3b and 3c so there would have been no detailed boundary between them. I knew the person who first drew up the zones on his kitchen table.
kerspatula | 17.04.21 - 10:47 a.m. | #
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The bus zones predated the tube, my 1978 bus map has the 'new suburban bus pass area', which was everything outside what looks like the future zone 1, it cost £11.75p per month, this was later split into 'inner' (later zone 2) and 'outer', along with (I think) 'outside London' or 'outside fare zones'.
Still Anon | 17.04.21 - 11:02 a.m. | #
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Bus maps produced in the days when buses had fare zones managed to draw a line round the edge of each zone. I suppose in reality these were just joining the dots between bus stops on the boundary. And since buses only had 4 zones the result wasn't as pretty as this one.
For a while the central zone was further divided into an eastern zone and a western zone, with a sizeable overlap between the two (Tottenham Court Road and Holborn Station were in both zones for example).
LeoH | 17.04.21 - 11:03 a.m. | #
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In the days of zoned bus fares I always found it odd that Barnes station was zone 2/3 for the buses on the road above the platforms but the trains were only in zone 3.
ap | 17.04.21 - 11:28 a.m. | #
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I thought initially that the north of Camden was getting a raw deal (in zone 3 instead of zone 2), but it turns out that it's because Hampstead station is in both Z2 & Z3 - and the map doesn't attempt to double shade any bizone areas
ADS | Homepage | 17.04.21 - 12:31 p.m. | #
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I assume the bus fare zones relate to the fare stage signs you used to see on the top of bus stops. I have vague memories of short and longer trip bus fares but I don’t know if these were related to zones or not.
froggitt | 17.04.21 - 1:00 p.m. | #
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Much prettier than the 50 shades of grey in current use.
I say change all maps to use these colours - but then I suppose the lines themselves would get confusing!
Cornish Cockney | 17.04.21 - 1:43 p.m. | #
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Encourage Londoners back onto public transport merge the 6 zones down to three eg 1/2, 3/4 & 5/6. Keep the outer zones 7+ as expensive top up zones renumbered as 4+
Andrew Jarman | 17.04.21 - 6:07 p.m. | #
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I think the Zone 6 anomaly in the west / southwest is due to Heathrow. The airport is deliberately charged as a premium fare to maximise income. Thus the squashing-up of zones between there and central London.
Joel | 17.04.21 - 6:11 p.m. | #
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As you say, Epping is twice as far from central London as Kingston but they are in the same zone, but the anomaly is even greater as SWR passengers/customers/victims pay higher rates than TfL fares - a difference that has grown over the past few years as TfL fares have been frozen and NR fares have been index linked at RPI+1. And we don't have a choice - now that Abbey Wood is managed (albeit not yet served) by TfL Rail, Kingston is the only borough with no TfL services other than buses
Timbo | 17.04.21 - 6:16 p.m. | #
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Being in a lower zone does have its drawbacks. If you don't own a home there already, buying or renting one tends to cost more, and the new residents of the posh flats around Battersea Power Station may find it a little harder to get cleaners and the like as potential staff won't want to pay the higher fares to travel in from where they can afford to live.
Andrew S | 17.04.21 - 9:52 p.m. | #
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Heathrow is on the east-west axis where zones are wider, so if it has an influence it actually helps to make fares along its axis cheaper rather than more expensive. To put things into perspective, Purley (to the south) is 4 miles closer than Heathrow to Charing Cross and Enfield (to the north) is 5 miles closer. Kingston is being unfairly treated in its own right and Epping Forest district is being privileged also in its own right.
Patrickov | 18.04.21 - 3:16 a.m. | #
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