please empty your brain below
Bank is shown as an interchange for Cannon St.

Isn't that a new label?

D-Notice | Homepage | 01.08.17 - 7:30 a.m. | #

a lot of the charges of complexity aimed at the DLR and Tram maps (not the Overground, it is awful) could of course be aimed at the tendrils of the District Line (the Met is relatively simple. Relatively). Yet no effort has ever been made there to produce maps like this?

Al__S | 01.08.17 - 7:43 a.m. | #

I have always wondered why it is so hard for London (or Britain in general) to adopt numbers to differentiate between services. I mean, no one says they should scrap the line names, but a system of numbers that helps e.g. navigating the Northern Line would make things much easier. The DLR has five services, so why don't call them D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5?

Maybe this is just the German inside me, but I find the following maps, where each service has a number, much easier to understand (you can argue about the design, but well:
» Berlin
» Berlin and Brandenburg
» Hamburg
» North Rhine-Westphalia

These numbers (U1, S3, RE7, etc.) are not only fancy map decoration, but are used throughout all passenger information (with some exceptions) and are shown on signs, trains, displays and are used in announcements etc. The different RB and RE labels also help to understand the "fastness" of a train: RB trains stop at every station (with some minor exceptions, e.g. when an S-Bahn is around), while RE trains (Regional-Express) though only stop at major stations. And don't let me start that all of the services shown operate with a common fare system...

Simon Hellinger | 01.08.17 - 7:56 a.m. | #

@Simon: There are already D3, D6, D7 and D8 bus routes which operate in the DLR area:

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm#MA10

CG | 01.08.17 - 8:00 a.m. | #

A welcome post and a pretty good summary.

Of course, technically they are not maps. They are diagrams. As such, there is no need to be geographically in any way accurate.

I think they have almost done the best they can in defining routes given that any solution is going to have flaws. The big weakness is portraying the Mon-Fri morning only as apparently an all-day seven-days-a-week service. Stratford-Canary Wharf could have been a separate distinctive service (either with another colour or just use the same colour) with a little dashed join and a note to state that through services to Lewisham ran in the Mon-Fri peak morning period.

dg writes: Noted. Agreed. Extra paragraph added.

I agree wholeheartedly they have made an absolute mess of the West India Quay issue. What were they thinking of? And it is counter-intuitive to Brits to see the arrows that way round. Why not just reflect the correct geographic layout? They didn't do a good job of this before yet managed to make it worse.

Finally, I do think the tram network has been done as well as it possibly can be. It makes it quite clear when you can get a through tram and when you have to change although there is the issue that the service is not that good in the evening and on Sunday with no Wimbledon-Elmers End services then.

Pedantic of Purley | 01.08.17 - 8:59 a.m. | #

I think Simon's right - numbers / letters at the start / finish is the answer. My guess is the designers stick with colours for historical continuity.

Thinking of our years in Paris, the metro map is a plate of Spaghetti Bolognese - https://www.ratp.fr/plan-metro - but using the line number plus the terminus you're heading towards it works a treat.

Same with the Crossrail RER network - letters and terminus.

I'll bet my €1 on numbers or letters coming to the Tube map one day.

Kevin | 01.08.17 - 9:48 a.m. | #

@D-Notice -- Bank/Cannon Street *is* an interchange. I've been using it for decades. When the new Walbrook entrance to Bank is open it will be even easier -- is direct line of sight from Cannon Street station.

Alan BG | 01.08.17 - 11:17 a.m. | #

Letters and numbers would be a great step forward for London's railways generally.

But not one that is liable to be taken, as we urgently need, these days, to distinguish ourselves from our continental cousins, by taking back control.

Malcolm | 01.08.17 - 11:36 a.m. | #

Crossrail, obviously, would be E2.

Jack | 01.08.17 - 11:39 a.m. | #

@Alan BG: Not to mention the Bankl capacity upgrade project now being done....

Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 01.08.17 - 11:51 a.m. | #

It's not just maps. Several people get confused on Central Line destinations. eg. 'Woodford via Hainault', 'Hainault via Woodford', 'Hainault via Newbury Park', just plain 'Woodford' & 'Grange Hill via Woodford'.

At Leytonstone, some drivers announce next stations followed by stations you need to change for and sometimes it's vice versa so if you only half hear them above all the other announcements it's very confusing.

TfL ignored my suggestion to use 'Woodford via Newbury Park' instead of 'Woodford via Hainault' which would give continuity of using 'Newbury Park' for all trains going that way.

Tony | 01.08.17 - 12:33 p.m. | #

I, too, wonder when London will join the rest of the civilised world and start numbering their DLR, tram and suburban/regional rail routes clearly and consistently.

The vast majority of suburban rail services are grouped into repeating patterns that reoccur with a frequency of 15, 30 or 60 minutes. Why oh why can't these be numbered and shown on a map or diagram?

straphan | 01.08.17 - 1:21 p.m. | #

@Tony

As far as I'm aware there are no services to Hainault via Woodford any more; there are a couple of very early morning services in the opposite direction but that's it.

The Tube map should really show a break in the line at Woodford (like the Circle line at Paddington/Edgware Road).

Geoff | 01.08.17 - 1:30 p.m. | #

Also I've just noticed that the Bank branch strays into the area marked Zone 2/3. Normally TfL maps are quite picky about putting every bit of track in its correct zone.

Geoff | 01.08.17 - 1:33 p.m. | #

There are plans to extend the DLR, Sadiq announced it last year and it's in the new Mayors transport strategy. The extension would be a new river crossing from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead and maybe Abbey wood. And then a possible extension also from Gallions Reach to Barking.

Flare | 01.08.17 - 2:20 p.m. | #

Wonder if this is a pre-cursor to different shades of orange on the Overground map?

Jon B | 01.08.17 - 2:49 p.m. | #

"...all the poster frames on DLR platforms are portrait rather than landscape."

This is not exactly true - whilst mostly portrait, there are landscape poster frames on each DLR platform which display eg the map of the entire TfL network.

@Flare: DG did say "at any point in the near future" - and the proposed extensions are currently the equivalent of vapourware!

Tim | 01.08.17 - 5:17 p.m. | #

The representation of the West India solution seems the clearest possible way of representing what is, in fact, a rather odd situation in real life.

Timbo | 01.08.17 - 7:10 p.m. | #

The West India Quay situation is not that different from Heathrow Terminal 4, or the central Croydon tram loop, so it seems odd that TfL haven't followed their own precedent here. There's not much space to fit the interchange in when Crossrail opens either.

Nick L | 01.08.17 - 9:22 p.m. | #

Yes, the topography of the way West India is shown is fine (even though it does not match the topography of the actual tracks - just like the Morningtown solution). The weirdness is using a broken line for one direction (and a special note) which suggests that there is something else strange going on - there is not.

Malcolm | 01.08.17 - 9:49 p.m. | #

Agree with Malcolm - why is the line dotted in one direction but not the other?

Messiah | 02.08.17 - 9:05 a.m. | #

Geoff,
When there's service disruption or engineering work trains often go 'Hainault via Woodford'.

Tony | 02.08.17 - 10:05 a.m. | #

Geoff - there might not be Hainault via Woodford trains anymore, but there are about a dozen Grange Hill via Woodford trains each day (3tph for 4 peak hours?).

The Woodford loop ought not to be broken on the map - maybe a restoration of the double-blob and dashed line that was once there (and once at Kennington) is the solution.

Si | 02.08.17 - 10:17 a.m. | #

The river only appears on the Route Finder version. Perhaps it would clutter the new map but I'd find its inclusion useful as an "anchor" in a part of the world I'm not familiar with.

Pimlico Pete | 02.08.17 - 10:58 a.m. | #

I was dismayed when I was first sent this map by 'somebody' several months ago, when I wrote to DLR nearly 4 years ago with suggested improvements, and all I ever received (about 2 years later) was, "sorry we didn't look at this until now, I was on paternity leave - we have no plans to review our maps any time in the near future. Thank you for your interest."

With every iteration, DLR's maps get progressively worse - I happen to know who designed this and the previous one, the same guy who redesigned bus blinds not so long ago - another awful 'development' aswell, but done as a reaction to 'evidence based research' and thus, apparently, perpetually exempt from question or comment.

Here are two variations I sent - both considerably simpler than the outgoing and incoming official ones:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzp1ktlbe1g7r52/DLR-H2C.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rpzvk564z389jma/DLR-H2Ds.pdf?dl=0

The only quick fix I would make to the new official map would be to switch Bank and Tower Gateway vertically - having Bank above Tower Gateway introduces one large unnecessary crossover which just tips the balance from being just able able to forgive all the other crossovers. Also even though I know full well the line starting at Woolwich Arsenal and going west/left is ending up at Bank, my eye can't help following it to Tower Gateway. A similar problem to that present in the previous map, when trying to follow any line from one end to the other through Canning Town.

Mark Boulton | 03.08.17 - 3:39 p.m. | #

LO should have numbered the routes from the start. It would make it a lot easier and those few parliamentary trains or diversions could get a special letter on the few days they run.

Drew | 04.08.17 - 10:14 a.m. | #

The problem with numbering/lettering the DLR routes is that during disruption, for special events, engineering works, etc any possible route is liable to run. e.g this morning northbound trains from Mudchute were alternating between Bank and Beckton rather than the normal Bank and Stratford.

The other weekend trains were running Lewisham to Stratford and Lewisham to Tower Gateway.

There are 1 or 2 late evening trains from Lewisham to Gallions Reach, some at the end of the evening peak run Bank-Gallions Reach and my first ever ride on the 2008 stock was a train from Bank to Stratford via Poplar.

The best I've come up with is to number/letter all the termini and key via points and just join them up to describe the route of the train. e.g. Bank - B
Tower Gateway - T
Lewisham - L
Woolwich Arsenal - W
Beckton - K
Stratford - S
Stratford Intl - I
Canning Town - C
Canary Wharf - F
London City Airport - A
Poplar - P
Custom House for Excel - E
Cutty Sark - Y

Normal services would be e.g. BFYL, LYFB, TPEK, ISCAW, SPF, etc. but this quickly gets very complicated - LYFPAW anyone?

Chris M | 04.08.17 - 7:03 p.m. | #

They really should employ INAT to sort it all out - different shades of teal as well as orange, lettered/numbered line designations, south London completely untangled, and some very creative quirks here and there.
http://www.inat.fr/metro/london/

NickW | 05.08.17 - 10:11 a.m. | #

At a recent London Transport Museum late, Geoff Marshall mentioned during one of his talks that there was a plan to colour code all of the London Overground routes. However, BoJo put a stop to it.

Geoff also showed a slide with the coloured line on it, it was wonderfully clear. I have a photo of it on my phone somewhere.

Adam | 08.08.17 - 2:09 p.m. | #

`The DLR has been an integral part of east London for 30 years and we are proud of the contribution it has made. With a growing population, and continuing redevelopment in the area, the importance of good transport links is clear. With improvements such as a new generation of trains from 2022 and initiatives to make our customers' lives easier, such as the new clearer DLR line map, we will ensure the DLR continues to meet those growing needs.'

Harold F Hutchinson, there.

Mark Boulton | 09.08.17 - 5:04 p.m. | #

I've been reliably informed that the new DLR map is not by the same designer as the previous one or the current bus blinds - I don't know who, only that it's by someone different...

Mark Boulton | 10.08.17 - 8:54 a.m. | #

Hate to burst your bubble, but these are not maps, they are called Line Diagrams as they only show details of that one line or section of line

Jon Newman | 10.08.17 - 2:33 p.m. | #

I updated my effort to see if it worked with multiple line colours. But I used different shades - current DLR turquoise, old DLR teal, and Tramlink green (yes, not ideal, but Tramlink's map already strays into DLR-like-colour territory, so it's a fair swap):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8jag2ls8pva17t/DLR-H2Ds_.pdf?dl=0

I'd rather they put mine up, though I say so myself. Especially now I've seen it pasted up in carriages, and indeed the pale line really IS too pale.

Mark Boulton | 17.08.17 - 12:01 p.m. | #

Having now seen the new DLR map pasted up in a DLR train, I agree, the pale line really IS too pale.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.08.17 - 10:13 a.m. | #











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