please empty your brain below
Riverside Gardens should really be Priory Gardens and it the R3 & R6 that go along Lower Road, the R4 goes via Ramsden & Cockmannings :-)

dg writes: tweaked, thanks

Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 27.03.25 - 7:59 a.m. | #

The Red Lion was a pub next to Red Lion Close. You can still see it on street view history.

Ian | 27.03.25 - 8:31 a.m. | #

I see Orpington is one of the areas where the local bus company puts conspicuous yellow numbers (some sort of bus running number?) in the front window, which make it look as though the route blind is broken and that's the real route number. They used to manage with a discreet plate on the side of the bus.

dg writes: not in any way uncommon.

Andrew S | 27.03.25 - 9:33 a.m. | #

The first R6 was a bit of a mystery, just a couple of months before deregulation outside London, LRT replace the existing 'London Country' route between Orpington and Sevenoaks. Unlike places like Epsom or Dartford, there was no history of red bus/trolleybus operation to Sevenoaks.

I suspect there was politics involved, but then Kentish Bus registered route 21 between Orpington and Sevenoaks from May 1987 and the R6 had to be withdrawn between Halstead and Sevenoaks because LRT would then be competing with a commercial service.

The operation of the remaining section of the R6 then became pointless and it was withdrawn in March 1988.

Still Anon | 27.03.25 - 11:32 a.m. | #

I agree with the resident who submitted the vitriolic criticism of the Tubbenden Lane bus stop. I’ve personally seen the aftermath of at least four collisions here in the last seven years, and I only pass it twice a day, so either I’ve been extraordinarily well-timed or TfL’s collision dashboard is totally inaccurate.

I offer no solution. But this junction is indeed terrible.

Darren G | 27.03.25 - 12:17 p.m. | #

I've wondered for decades why Orpington buses start with "R", but I've just realised that "R" is the second letter of Orpington, and they probably didn't want to use "O" because it looks like a zero.

dg writes: see 2nd paragraph.

Basil Jet | 27.03.25 - 3:56 p.m. | #

I saw your second paragraph, but Walthamstow buses start with W, Ealing buses start with E, Harrow buses start with H and Kingston buses start with K, so I think the "Roundabout" name is a fake backstory for the R whose real reason is that they wanted to use O but couldn't.

dg writes: think again

Basil Jet | 27.03.25 - 4:06 p.m. | #

Happened to be at St Mary Cray station this afternoon. There are now posters and the R6 tile has been removed.

There is a generic poster with "Route R6 will be withdrawn" as heading and "use the rerouted B14" in rather small print, together with a rather overcomplicated map. There is also a more local poster, showing the walking route from Murray Road.

Spoorslag70 | 27.03.25 - 5:24 p.m. | #

Sorry, it may have looked like I was accusing you of faking a backstory, when I was suggesting that the name came about when someone at London Buses couldn't use the O, settled for R, and invented the name Roundabout because admitting that they'd taken the second letter of Orpington looked a bit crap.

Basil Jet | 27.03.25 - 5:27 p.m. | #

The company was called Orpington Buses Ltd. (a subsidiary of LBL), the network and buses were branded as 'Roundabout'.

I believe that at one time the plan to privatize LBL was to sell off individual garages (at this point deregulation in London was still going ahead), which is why we got Roundabout along with Bexleybus, Harrow Buses, Kingston Bus, Suttonbus and Westlink.

Still Anon | 27.03.25 - 8:00 p.m. | #

I remember in pre TfL days various positions for the Tubbenden Lane bus stop being tried. But all have downsides.
The problem is the access to Tubbenden Lane. One solution would be to ban right turns into and out of Tubbenden Lane. I understand there are other longer routes. This would not be popular, but would reduce conflicts at the junction dramatically.
There are just too many junctions in a short stretch and the A232 is not designed for the amount of traffic that uses it at this junction.

Martin | 27.03.25 - 8:54 p.m. | #

Tubbenden lane is a problem (for cars anyway) but handy for passengers as it’s where the buses starting at the station combine with those coming down the hill. So maximising the chance of catching a bus, especially late at night.

There are seven closed pubs at least along the R6.

1. Wetherspoon - in The Walnuts, Orpington High Street - Empty
2. The Old Forge/Artichoke - Orpington High Street- Now Smoky Kitchen
3. The Ship Orpington High Street - was Reku Zen, failed conversion to Curry House
4. The Albert - Lower Road corner Albert Road - Now flats
5. The White Swan - Kent Road. Empty
6. The Anglesea - Corner Kent Road, Anglesea Road. Pharmacy
7. The Red Lion - High Street, St Mary Cray flats

Oppsite the Anglesea was a private members club: The Rosecroft, now also closed

Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 28.03.25 - 9:47 a.m. | #











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