please empty your brain below
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I used to live on the Roundshaw Estate and this would have been a gamechanger for me, although I'm not sure in a good way.
GeoffL | 17.10.20 - 11:30 a.m. | #
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Thanks, I had completely missed this.
Looks significant.
Cheam Resident | 17.10.20 - 11:52 a.m. | #
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It always amuses me that such an unassuming corner of London, by which of course I mean Belmont, should have such a good bus service.
Will Paterson | 17.10.20 - 12:07 p.m. | #
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I for one am excited that three new bus routes may be on their way.
As you say the S2 originally operated in east London, linking Clapton to Bromley-by-Bow from 1970 to 1985, then extended to Stratford. The S2 route number has been unused since 2008.
439 and 443 are new numbers for TfL, although in the London Country era the 439 used to run from Redhill to Dorking (via Newdigate) and the 443 connected Staines to Uxbridge.
There was once an S5, of course, but it was withdrawn in 2002.
Ken | 17.10.20 - 1:26 p.m. | #
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Once upon a time TfL produced proper bus maps!
Yes, & no matter how many times they are told that getting rid of them was a disaster, they ignore everyone.
TfL expect everyone to use some faulty unleiable "app" or other & of course they know best what their cutomers want.
Greg | 17.10.20 - 1:33 p.m. | #
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never liked the 455 good riddance
nebulus | 17.10.20 - 2:11 p.m. | #
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Well yeah, the 455 was quite long (but I do have some lovely memories of me and my mum going to Ikea after primary school with Arriva's long gone DWL's).
The Waddon Marsh destination would be where the old 289/455 loop was, there is just a bus lane there doing absolutely nothing :(
The S4 I would say could not be upgraded to 10.2m buses, I'd say 9.7m at most, but parked cars in Carshalton can be an issue.
The X26 will definitely get a passenger increase, especially in school times, perhaps a frequency increase will be required for this?
LJ17THF | Homepage | 17.10.20 - 3:48 p.m. | #
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Wasn't the 413 the old 213 bus route? I used to travel to school on the latter about 60 years ago though it didn't womble around Carshalton Village then..
Oliver Pearcey | 17.10.20 - 4:22 p.m. | #
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Disagree about the maps, crossing out the route number obscures it, and the blue background doesn't help, for example the 439 number which is yellow with a black outline, or the orange 443 on a blue background.
Not sure if having a 433 and a 443 at West Croydon is a good idea, the 408 is available, although used for a route in Epsom, but the 387, 437, 447 and 457 are all unused.
Do we want more 'S' routes though, I believe the S7 was renumbered 470 to avoid confusion with the 57.
Still Anon | 17.10.20 - 6:45 p.m. | #
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I’m surprised you didn’t offer a value judgement on the changes. You are usually pretty opinionated on bus service rationalisation.
Jimmy | 17.10.20 - 8:28 p.m. | #
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That removed bit of the S1 used to be notorious for attacks and they had to keep withdrawing it from there temporarily; now it loses buses altogether!
Matt | 18.10.20 - 6:41 a.m. | #
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I have a fond memory of the 407's absurd route. I rarely fall asleep on trains, even in a semi-drunken stupor. But on this occasion we were held outside East Croydon (where I wanted to be) for 15+ minutes for... reasons. So I nodded off and woke up at Kenley. So I did the Wrong Thing and hopped off what was certainly the last train of the night.
For those unfamiliar with Kenley station, it's one of those spots that manages to be in the utter middle of nowhere despite being well inside the M25. No shops open, no minicabs, nothing. This in the days before Uber et.al. I should have stayed on to Caterham and at least got a minicab there.
As I stood at the side of the road and tried to figure out if I needed to call my wife to come and get me, out of a bank of fog rolls a 407. "That stops outside my house!" I cried incredulously. The bus driver thought I was a lunatic, I was so happy to see him. Stayed awake, got home, end of story. But forever a warm spot in my heart for the 407's rather silly, dogleg route.
Chz | 18.10.20 - 10:22 a.m. | #
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I lived in Caterham for many years but never came across almost. Where is almost exactly ?
Tony (Somerset) | 18.10.20 - 4:32 p.m. | #
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Jimmy: I am afraid it is not a good idea to comment on bus changes involving an area one is not living in or visiting frequently. DG usually gives comments on Tower Hamlets bus services, which is his local area.
Patrickov | 18.10.20 - 7:04 p.m. | #
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"Almost Caterham " is just past Whyteleafe South, where the 434 currently terminates at "Court Bushes Road" bus stop (presumably because the hill up toward Caterham is too taxing :-) Just a convenient point for buses to terminate & use the roundabout at the north end of the Caterham bypass to reverse direction
The only reason I've actually stood at that stop is being turfed off the Caterham bound 407 when it terminates early "due to late running"
Peter Wren | 18.10.20 - 8:34 p.m. | #
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Sutton Hospital, shown on your 'before' map, barely exists now and a new secondary school has been built on the site. I imagine that must generate a lot of bus passengers at certain times. It is also the site of a proposed new emergency hospital, though that is still a hotly debated topic.
Peter | 18.10.20 - 9:25 p.m. | #
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I see the 80 is once again being truncated. It once went from Tooting Broadway to Lower Kingswood - miles out of today's Greater London. Today it's 'northern' terminus is Hackbridge, which means you can catch it in St Helier Avenue going north 'towards' Belmont, which is actually due south on a more-or-less straight road.
Peter again | 18.10.20 - 9:38 p.m. | #
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Ah, the S2. Forever likely to generate fond memories of waiting outside Bromley-by-Bow station in the 1970s to sample the new Metro-Scania (MS class) and Leyland National (LS class) single deckers being trialled by LT on the route to Clapton Pond. After a few round trips and back to the Pond I seem to recall catching a 253 on its circuit round to Warren Street Station. Funny how experiences like this stay in the memory.
Stuart R | 19.10.20 - 10:50 a.m. | #
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Results of consultation announced.
Changes as proposed: S1, 164, 312, 405, 407, 434, 455
New routes introduced: S2, 439, 443
Revised proposals: 80, 166, 413, 470, S3, S4
80: route will not change
166: rerouted in Purley Oaks
413: route will not change
470: cut back from Epsom to Sutton
S3: southern half unchanged
S4: cut back from St Helier to Sutton
diamond geezer | Homepage | 03.09.21 - 4:29 p.m. | #
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None of these changes have been implemented yet, though!
dg writes: not yet.
Greg | 18.02.23 - 9:29 p.m. | #
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On 2nd March 2024...
Route 434 is restructured
Route 439 commences
Route 455 is discontinued
Route 470 is cut back to Sutton
Route S2 commences
diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.10.23 - 2:55 p.m. | #
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455 been a bit skeptical on whether TfL carried forward from residents uneasy truce with Croydon borough at the other end to somewhere like Crystal Palace alternatively, Not sure how viable Norbury Hill or St James Road was not served as an introduction to New route via Crystal Palace Parade, Church Road, Beulah Hill, Norbury Hill, London Road, St James Road and West Croydon Bus Station.
tfl.gov.uk/croydon-bus-study.pdf
AK334 | 19.02.24 - 5:22 p.m. | #
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