please empty your brain below
Having just received my 60+ Oyster card - what a perk for us older 'Londoners', its validity is awesome (all zone Tfl travelcard on Tfl as per the visitor card PLUS post 9:30am national rail services) - who could ask for more. Therefore, why are Tfl marketing such a sham of a card - it's embarrassing.

By contrast, last year my daughter and friends spent three nights / 3.5 days in Amsterdam, and was able to make use of their excellent value 72 hour card, well explained as to its validity buying just one ticket in from Schipol to make the timings work. Tfl should be ashamed.

Ken | 21.11.18 - 7:22 a.m. | #

I suppose you could argue that most visitors won't look beyond the tube map so what does it matter, but it will cause confusion. Unless this is a precursor for a proper part time Travelcard. Well, we could hope.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 21.11.18 - 7:34 a.m. | #

Not odd at all when you consider TFLs financial state. And given that all our major museums are free to tourists, they can suck this up and subsidise us a little bit.

David | 21.11.18 - 7:39 a.m. | #

The pass shown in your blog has "Not valid on NR off peak" which, without punctuation, is misleading to say the least.

timbo again | Homepage | 21.11.18 - 8:02 a.m. | #

The paper travel card is still useful when bought as an add-on to a ND ticket from outside of London. From my local station, upgrading to a Z1-6 travel card adds £5 to the ticket cost, making it far cheaper than using Oyster or Contactless.

Jimbo | 21.11.18 - 8:57 a.m. | #

I was interested to see from a London Travel Watch tweet yesterday that there is to be a reduction in tickets available at TfL stations from the New Year...

Concerns have been raised by Board members about decision to no longer issue Travelcard Season Tickets within London Travelcard/Oyster PAYG area from Jan 2019 as well as the ability of people to be able to access all the tickets they could buy from a ticket machine. #ltwboard

ap | 21.11.18 - 9:11 a.m. | #

Whilst this has the feeling of being just wrong and immoral, it is certainly not unique and, to various degrees, replicated elsewhere abroad.

A particular one to watch out for if 60 years old or over is the 'better value' travel card (e.g. Vienna) because it offers a discount to local museums. I was quick to discover that buying the regular weekly pass plus familiarity with enough German to say "Ich bin Sechzig Jahre alt" was much better (and I could have said "I am sixty years old" in English and probably have got the same discount at the museums).

Pedantic of Purley | 21.11.18 - 9:19 a.m. | #

Assuming overseas visitors have the contactless facility on their bank cards, why not just use that for simplicity?
Do currency conversion charges tip the balance to stop it from being the cheapest option?

Cornish Cockney | 21.11.18 - 10:23 a.m. | #

As Pedantic of Purley points out this sort of ticket is marketed elsewhere, but at least on cities I've been to it includes reduced admission to various attractions. Admittedly with some you'd have to have a pretty hectic schedule to financially benefit from buying one instead of an ordinary local travelcard (or equivalent). The point I think is that the TFL one offers NO advantage over ordinary ones, apart from to themselves.

Tim | 21.11.18 - 10:31 a.m. | #

@CornishCockney Contactless Bank cards are usually the simplest -and even with conversion fees cheapest- option. But I understand that those "touch your card and we will charge it with whatever amount we think is correct" attitude makes some people uneasy. So a fixed price Travelcard will be preferred by them.

MK | 21.11.18 - 10:55 a.m. | #

As a frequent visitor I have a visitor oyster card which I top up as needed.
London is a major tourist destination, but it is known to be very expensive. This scam only makes it more so.
Although to be fair as was pointed out by Andrew the Museums are free, swings and roundabouts.

YDU | 21.11.18 - 11:06 a.m. | #

The unease about allowing TfL to grab what they want from your bank account may be at least part justified by seemingly-arcane rules about touching in and (except on buses) out. Whenever gates are open (or absent) there is a big chance of tourists missing them and getting incomplete journey charges.

Malcolm | 21.11.18 - 11:11 a.m. | #

Wonder if tourists who want to make a day of a trip to the Harry Potter thing in Watford would agree that it's "go anywhere"?

Uncle Audrey | 21.11.18 - 11:21 a.m. | #

Contactless in a non-EUR country for EUR-based tourists would be an expensive option as most foreign card issuers will charge a flat conversion charge on small payments. Even if they don't the FX conversion rate makes it expensive.

For having taken many city breaks in Europe, the London system and range of offerings is quite complex, even if for a resident his/her credit/debit card takes care of making sense of it. So convenience is important. And there is also nothing wrong in making a little bit of money out of tourists over residents, in my opinion. It is not like they contribute to fixed costs.

French reader | 21.11.18 - 12:31 p.m. | #

I doubt many tourists actually need to venture beyond Z3, or even Z1. I am so confident on my ability to find suitable public transport / to walk that I probably spent *less* than regular Tube commuters on Oyster in average.

Patrickov | 21.11.18 - 12:35 p.m. | #

Particularly mad as the British Tourist Board's official shop sells Visitor Oyster cards, which work just like ordinary Oyster cards. It's suggesting £20 for one or two days and £25 for three is enough. (But you retain any unused value.)

There have been a few scams around this. I remember one website a few years ago was selling Visitor Oyster cards and claiming that non-Brits weren't allowed to have regular Oysters.

Meanwhile, when I was in Hong Kong last year and wanted to buy an Octopus card, the ticket person accurately judged I was over 65 and sold me an ancient person's Octopus (without demanding proof of age). That meant I could get round Hong Kong for a few pence a trip. I will be using it again next month, still with the original credit (I hope).

AlanBG | 21.11.18 - 1:19 p.m. | #

Conversely the BritRail pass for overseas tourists annoyingly offers very generous discounts for national rail travel compared to the equivalent All Line Rover for UK residents - as I recall DG highlighting in a post some time ago.

Roger French | Homepage | 21.11.18 - 1:50 p.m. | #

"as most foreign card issuers will charge a flat conversion charge on small payments"

At least for Germany I don't know of any issuer with a flat conversion fee. They have a mark-up of between nothing and about 2%.

MK | 21.11.18 - 1:50 p.m. | #

Confusion Marketing - it's the go to solution for massive monopolies everywhere now.

I blame Thatcher.

drD | 21.11.18 - 4:42 p.m. | #

Even if there is a flat conversion charge for some tourists, it will not be as bad as it might seem, because the travel charge is taken from the card at the end of the day (rather than, as one may have expected, at the end of each trip).

Malcolm | 21.11.18 - 5:10 p.m. | #

Granted the Harry Potter studios are not within TfL's version of "go anywhere". But then nor is Stratford on Avon - to the surprise of some visitors who allegedly think they have spotted it on the tube map.

Malcolm | 21.11.18 - 5:14 p.m. | #

There are tourist attractions that require rail access outside Z3. Hampton Court, Windsor Castle, Eltham Palace, Chislehurst Caves, Downe House etc.

I’ve seen many other simple to use city passes that include travel on everything, sometimes travel to and from outlying airports, as well as discounts or free entry to attractions. There is more to London than museums. It’s a pity we can’t follow their examples.

Matt Sawyer | 21.11.18 - 9:38 p.m. | #

Calling it a scam is a bit generous to tfl staff (and being a recent ex-employee I should know)

@ken do you not appreciate that this kind of revenue raising initiative is helping to fund your over 60s pass and also if the government recognised the economic value of London and the need for taxation within the city then fares might be subsided like they are in Amsterdam.

Flare | 21.11.18 - 11:00 p.m. | #

Poor form, you don't expect TfL to be ripping off tourists like this. I hope Trip Advisor, Wikitravel and the Guide Books all point out what a rubbish deal this is.

Mikey C | 22.11.18 - 12:21 a.m. | #

@flare I have mixed emotions about receiving my "over 60s pass". On the one hand, I have already benefited enormously from it, and once it saved my bacon for work as I took the previously more expensive route from Heathrow (for fun) that the same X26 service I was expecting to catch for the last mile had been cancelled - I was able to take an alternate.

On the other hand, I live 100m from the edge of London, and the benefit divide is huge - I do most of my socialising south of the border and quite a few friends expressed their dispeasure - I shut up pretty quick after that. Also, I discovered that acquaintances who work around me live in Surrey and, again, don't benefit.

Ken | 22.11.18 - 12:47 p.m. | #











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