please empty your brain below

Wasn't LRT promised a big wad of cash to build an Underground line to Canary Wharf, and then the developers got into financial difficulty and the money never materialised.

I also agree that any (reasonable) tube extension is a good one, and we must not forget that historically, the Tube extensions have renewed areas of London automatically, wherever it goes. I do however, agree that these days things are far too commercialised.

I do agree that an extension to Clapham Junction seems logical but considering there is already rail from Queenstown Road and Waterloo to Clapham Junction should we not be looking at using our entire rail network when planning a journey and interchanging? I'm not so sure Londoners yet embrace the full rail National Rail component of the PAYG/Travelcard network coverage when making journey choices beyond of their home commute, especially when there is nearby Tube access, even if it is more inconvenient.

I whole heartedly agree with your viewpoint.

When I first read about the extension, I looked at it on a map and thought, great, that's a Victoria line intechange, because changing at Stockwell, backing up to Kennington and changing there is just plain dumb, and it's only a spit away from a National Rail hook up. *sigh*

Never understood why people think that an Underground extension is some sort of guarantee of prosperity for an area. Plenty of prosperous places in London without the Underground, and some really nasty places with it.

And here are some nice photos taken just along the road from Brixton station a few years ago.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2011/04/article-1052881-044DB9B90000044D-204_468x286.jpg

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00596/Brixton_Riots_1_pol_596214s.jpg


the extension could go on to clapham Junction - which really could do with being properly conected to the underground, and then perhaps follw the rail lines to Putney, or wimbledon.

Sadly, commercial/corporate finance is currently the only variety available: until/unless we stop spending money on pointless wars and get people back to work and off benefits (etc etc, choose your own grouse).

Britain is broke. There is no money. Previous governmints working in more affluent times have failed to provide the investment into the infrastructure that is needed today.

I don't know what the answer is, though... except that it's a good job big business has more of an idea about planning for future growth than the last governmint ever did.

But we have a cable car!!!!

Yep Labour was utterly useless with infrastructure improvements across the country. Rolling in money for 13 years (albeit carelessly) and very little to show for it. The only hope is devolution, and the ability of local politicians to raise finance to construct projects through bonds. Thankfully London has a mayor and TfL, even if the mayors power is too limited. It's a lot worse elsewhere in the country. Central Govt of all colours generally doesn't care about infrastructure and long term planning. Thameslink and Crossrail have taken decades of struggle.
Wikipedia any mid size city in Europe and you'll see trams being built, underground lines etc. Far more than in the UK.

0 of the Victoria Line stops either side, I don't know what Kennington is like now in the morning but when I had to change their regularly in the late 70s early 80s it was a war of attrition if you needed to change from Charing X to a Waterloo line. I can't for the life of me imagine the more modern Stockwell or Vauxhall not being the sensible choice.

Well, you can argue that Camberwell has needed the extension over the last 80 years, but no one has built it. Ken never pushed for it in either times he was Mayor for London, so I don't see how it's entirely relevant.

Also wasn't most of the tube built by private companies. A lot of the Suburban extensions were built to fuel development.

The problem with the Queenstown road and Battersea is that those trains per hour you mention are not all on the same route. They are in fact made up half a dozen different routes. So from South London a lot of stations may only have half hourly service to Queenstown road. From Central London you have to interchange from the Tube to the Station(allow 10 to 15 mins) and then hunt the departure board for which platform then next train is leaving from.
Not the end of the World, but a single high frequency route with 28 trains an hour all leaving from the same platform, straight in to the heart of the West End, is an entirely different kettle of Fish.

This line will also be a test for Tax Increment Financing, where local Government, borrows against future tax revenues derived from future property development and all those business rates. It's fairly common in the States, but new here.

If it works expect the Barkerloo line extension down the Old Kent Road to Lewisham to be strong contender. There are a lot of industrial estates along there.



@ Adam - I agree with your point about whether people understand the National Rail network south of the Thames. I think one issue is that the service patterns are fairly complex even though there are reasonable frequencies on many routes.

A clear and logical network with relatively simple service patterns and put on a decent map could transform people's use of the network. You have to see what has happened with London Overground so far to see what might be achieved.

"A clear and logical network with relatively simple service patterns and put on a decent map could transform people's use of the network"

There is a balance to be struck between omitting useful information and making the map too busy, but would add the following to the tube map to plug the biggest gaps - in particular where two tube/OG/DLR stations are linked by a more direct Network Rail service.
1. Liverpool Street to Walthamstow/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters
2 Moorgate to Finsbury Park
3. Elephant/London Bridge to West Hampstead
4. Paddington to Ealing Bdy (- Heathrow?)
5. Waterloo - CJ - Richmond
6. Waterloo - CJ - Wimbledon
7. Victoria - CJ- Balham - Crystal Palace - West Croydon
8. Cannon Street - Greenwich - Woolwich
9. Charing Cross- Lewisham
10. London Bridge - NXG

I have omitted services with poor frequency, such as Elephant - Wimbledon, Richmond - Wimbledon, Marylebone - West Ruislip, Stratford Tottenham Hale.

Railway stations with trains every 3 minutes, tube stations within 5 minutes walk, Crossrail requiring huge investment and eyecatching stations, St Pancras expensively restored, DLR extensions, new tube lines planned, shiny new Overground and tube trains everywhere...

What bit of "There's No Money Left" don't you understand London?

Hi Chris p

I'm not sure which railway stations in London have trains every three minutes. Also, this proposed Tube extension is being funded privately.

It would be nice to see improvements to the transport system outside London as well - people should campaign for it.














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