please empty your brain below
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Last year I attended a weekend conference at the Hilton hotel in Rotherhithe. The documents mentioned the free ferry, and there were actual tickets to use for travel on it. I didn't have time to go, though I was tempted to just for the ride.
Perhaps it's not made so obvious for hotel residents.
Anyway I hope it can become more available for everybody.
amber | 22.06.19 - 7:17 a.m. | #
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I think the ferry is the most expensive public transport in the world.That £4.80 only gets you 300 yards, so you’re paying over £25 per mile, far more than the Heathrow Express or the Dangleway or even first-class air travel.
Mike Scott | 22.06.19 - 7:32 a.m. | #
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What about turfing motor vehicles out of the Rotherhithe Tunnel, and giving it a makeover with some white paint and bright lighting? OK, it might still be less than wonderful, but it would cost almost nothing, and would make sensibe use of a heritage asset.
Malcolm | 22.06.19 - 9:51 a.m. | #
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Interesting story this. I worked at Elliott Wood in 2015 when they, along with Reform, produced the initial bascule scheme which was costed at 88M
Things have obviously moved on a long way from there, but a 400M increase seems excessive
[Reform plan]
[2015 news item]
Wayne Phillips | 22.06.19 - 10:00 a.m. | #
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I nominate DG for the next London Mayor.
He seems to be the only one capable of joined up thinking!
Cornish Cockney | 22.06.19 - 10:00 a.m. | #
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There could be some parallels with the Eleanor Schonnell Bridge in Brisbane, where the University of Queensland at the far end of a loop in the river was connected by a bridge for pedestrians, bikes and buses. Maybe they already considered that. The eye watering cost of a navigable bridge, however, is clearly too much. Perhaps when both Jubilee lines and Crossrail are over-full, and low carbon-ness makes mass cycling an irresistible default, will the idea find its time again.
NickW | Homepage | 22.06.19 - 10:08 a.m. | #
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Got to thank @Cornish Cockney for making me look to see how you stand to be Mayor. Like this.
dg needs among other things...
330 signatures of people on the electoral register in London supporting his nomination, consisting of 10 from each London borough and 10 from the City of London
A deposit of £10,000, which is returned if dg gets more than five per cent of first choice votes cast.
For an extra £10K dg can have his manifesto published in the Mayoral address booklet, which is sent to all registered voters in London before polling day.
ap | 22.06.19 - 10:15 a.m. | #
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Ah, but if DG ran for mayor, he'd have to reveal his secret identity...
Scott | Homepage | 22.06.19 - 10:28 a.m. | #
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seize the day !
it sometimes feels like politicians / local government wait for enhancements to be packaged together in a way that generates the best publicity (or timed for elections), rather than just get on and do the bloody obvious thing now.
ADS | Homepage | 22.06.19 - 10:48 a.m. | #
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Among the other things needed to be London Mayor is the willingness to do it. It puzzles me how anyone at all could have this, given the constraints which the Mayor is subject to.
Malcolm | 22.06.19 - 11:23 a.m. | #
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Mike Scott: £25 per mile? That's a bargain compared with the journey from Leicester Square to Covent Garden on the Piccadilly Line is only 250 metres. The cash fare of £4.90 equates to about £31 per mile. And on the ferry you get a view.
timbo | 22.06.19 - 11:26 a.m. | #
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Passenger: One adult return please. Booking clerk: Where to? Passenger: Well here, of course.
The ratio of price to distance travelled for any return journey is infinite, which when I was at school was far higher than £31 per mile.
Malcolm | 22.06.19 - 12:18 p.m. | #
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Maybe building the bridge and toll it at £1 per use would cover the business case deficit (not the cost itself though) in relatively short time. Is it possible to know how well the existing foot bridges and tunnels across the Thames are used?
Patrickov | 22.06.19 - 12:31 p.m. | #
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Malcolm, you are talking about displacement. A return trip goes for a distance of two trips even though you end up where you started.
Patrickov | 22.06.19 - 12:32 p.m. | #
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I wonder how much TfL have wasted on getting designs and tenders for this bridge when in my opinion they would have known that the cost would be enormous and unaffordable. Even if it was "only" £350m I question whether that is really a sensible use of resources, for the small number of cyclists who would benefit.
The Silvertown tunnel at £750m isn't much more expensive AND both it asnd the Blackwall crossings will be tolled so the users will pay for its construction
Mikey C | 22.06.19 - 3:24 p.m. | #
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Here's some joined up thinking... Its a chance to move the dangleway! What they can do is turn the Greenwich terminal round to face west. The cable car instead goes to Canary Wharf, stops there at an intermediate station, and its then on to Rotherhithe. If they want to they can always extend it to serve Wapping and Tower Bridge - everything's in an almost perfect alignment. Continue that exact alignment to serve The Tate, Somerset House and one ends up at Covent Garden. Hey presto - we have a fantastic replacement in lieu of the RV1 too!
Rog | Homepage | 22.06.19 - 8:37 p.m. | #
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"A cable car would meet many of the project objectives but a technically feasible alignment has not been identified, given the densely built up nature of the area and the requirement for a straight corridor free of obstructions or residential buildings."
Option discounted following long list assessment
diamond geezer | Homepage | 22.06.19 - 8:40 p.m. | #
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"The Silvertown tunnel at £750m isn't much more expensive"? £750m is more than twice as much as £350m. That additional £400m could pay for quite a lot of other things. Two garden bridges, for example.
As DG suggests, you could radically improve the existing ferry service for a very modest outlay. Sadly most politicians are more attracted to expensive projects that make a big splash (HS2, third runway, garden bridge, etc), rather than more modest proposals that steadily make incremental improvements. "Ferry service a bit better" is not going to win many votes.
Andrew | 22.06.19 - 8:55 p.m. | #
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Why not dig a tunnel?
Dubidubno | 22.06.19 - 11:55 p.m. | #
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"A bored or mined tunnel would meet many of the project objectives, however, given that it is likely to be more costly than all other options... it will not be considered further."
Option discounted following long list assessment
diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.06.19 - 12:01 a.m. | #
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Andrew, a third runway at LHR is not that "fancy", given LHR is the busiest airport in the world with only two runways and capacity is limited. But yes, I agree that focusing on new bridges only may be a bit too "fancy".
TommyL4 | 23.06.19 - 4:05 a.m. | #
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Controversial opinion perhaps but Elon Musk’s “Boring Company” recently bored a 1.14mile tunnel with a 14ft diameter (perfect for pedestrians!) at a cost of $10m. Lifts at both sides provide the ventilation. Now you might want to double up on that for safety as there’s no quick way out much like the channel tunnel. But the tunnels can be as deep as you want so would go way under the water bed, and below any services.
It’ll be interesting to see their first customers tunnels in Las Vegas next year and what the real world costs are like that aren’t test tunnels.
R | 23.06.19 - 7:34 a.m. | #
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I do like the idea of making the ferry free (and staffing it so that there's not the big gaps in services)- it would also be a good idea to signpost it. But nly if at the same time serious work is put into costing and building a proper ro-ro bike ferry (think a mini version of the Woolwich ferry) with fully cycleable access ramps
Al__S | 23.06.19 - 3:51 p.m. | #
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Deep sigh when I got the email about this, a decent fixed link would have made my life vastly easier and less stressed over the past decade, trying to make the 1KM as-the-crow-flies journey to work. But at least the Rotherhithe peninsular will remain a relatively peaceful oasis amidst the horror of all around. I think a fixed link would have created a lot of parking and traffic problems as people would have dumped their cars on the south side and walked across to Canary Wharf. A free ferry would also encourage this to some extent.
It's a real shame though, not only for locals like me but also for the relief it would have given to the Greenwich Foot Tunnel and the Jubilee Line at Canada Water, which suffers terrible overcrowding.
Alan | 23.06.19 - 5:57 p.m. | #
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Call me a cynic but isn't the reason it's so expensive because they know they have a captive market of well off consultants/office workers, staying at the Hilton, who will most likely claim the rip off fare back on expenses?
dg writes: No, it's free for hotel guests.
Johnny Topaz | 24.06.19 - 9:33 a.m. | #
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Andrew, the article suggests that the final cost could be up to £600m which is pretty close to the £750m considering the massively smaller benefit
Mikey C | 24.06.19 - 10:57 p.m. | #
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£600m is still considerably less than £750m, but I do not think the Silvertown tunnel will be completed for £750m. Recent reports suggest it will cost over a billion. If we compare current midpoint estimates, or maxima, the two will be even further apart.
I suspect we agree with the thrust of DG's post, which is that much could be done to improve cross-river links for considerably less money.
Andrew | 26.06.19 - 12:16 p.m. | #
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From TfL's Emergency Budget, July 2020:
"Rotherhithe to Canary Wharf – scheme currently unaffordable in the context of other walking and cycling priorities"
diamond geezer | Homepage | 24.07.20 - 3:33 p.m. | #
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