please empty your brain below
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390 I took last night did not have the announcement at all. ,
Michael | 21.01.18 - 7:25 a.m. | #
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TfL's challenge is to improve safely whilst not knowing why people fell over or whether fallung over was related to the bus setting off from a bus stop rather than starting elsewhere; traffic lights, traffic queues etc.
Also, I suspect that the reported number of slips, trips and falls understates the true situation and there will be many times the number of near misses. I believe these are due to the comparatively high performance of modern buses and lack of smooth driving.
None of this excuses the appalling choice of message and or appalling implementation. If they were limited to a message linked to door opening then any traveller could have predicted the result as DG has faithfully reported. A very simple fix could have been to say "please hold on all the time".
100andthirty | 21.01.18 - 7:39 a.m. | #
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Perhaps the aim is to annoy people off the buses, allowing for further reductions in the service?
Ian | 21.01.18 - 7:47 a.m. | #
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I wonder if “customer annoyance” even filters into the final decision.
Kirk | 21.01.18 - 7:54 a.m. | #
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I rode the entire W7 route on Friday, and was intrigued that the announcement didn't play at every stop.
I would estimate that it activated at only 50% of the stops, and usually when appropriate. I got the impression that the driver may have been controlling it.
Frank F | 21.01.18 - 7:55 a.m. | #
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But did the route and destination announcement play?
Mike D | 21.01.18 - 8:01 a.m. | #
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@Mike D - on the W7? Yes it did.
Frank F | 21.01.18 - 8:02 a.m. | #
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Got on the 427 yesterday morning. As I was still walking down the aisle, the bus took off with a jolt and I staggered, needing to use both hands to grab the available handrails. As I eventually slid into a seat, I heard "please hold on..."
HoosierSands | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 8:12 a.m. | #
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here is a suggestion ... have the driver make the announcement!
ding ding hold tight
PJS | 21.01.18 - 8:33 a.m. | #
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I never did understand why TFL need Slippery when Wet signs at underground stations. Is it bad design of the flooring? Why don't they make flooring slip proof in the first place?
Running_Correspondent | 21.01.18 - 8:35 a.m. | #
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There was an item about this on the BBC's More Or Less podcast this week. Basically, if warnings are wrong too often, people switch off listening to them.
Not rocket science, but something TfL should have surely known about.
(Ironically, they also said that the famous "Mind the gap" alert is probably one of the best)
Jon Jones | 21.01.18 - 8:35 a.m. | #
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ding ding hold tight
Why not just have the iconic Routemaster "ding ding" and link it to the door closing button. Has the added advantage that it's language neutral.
Jon Jones | 21.01.18 - 8:38 a.m. | #
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People do not naturally fall over when walking, but they will if given a shove. The bus shove could be avoided if the bus drivers were trained to pull away smoothly rather than like a racing driver and then did so.
If TfL think that we need notice that the bus is about to move (and it really should not surprise us, isn't that what we got on for?) then why is there not one when it is about to stop when we get another shove as the driver brakes hard? This used to happen to me just as I was going down the stairs holding both hand-rails because of the expected shove - I now wait at the top of the stairs until the bus has stopped.
Perhaps TfL could use mystery shoppers to check on the drivers performance. They could then show that they had taken the necessary steps to reduce the risk.
strawbrick | 21.01.18 - 9:02 a.m. | #
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Perhaps tfl need to reflect and realise you cannot remove all risk. Having people walking about on vehicles that stop / start / accelerate / decelerate inevitably carries some risk.
The alternative is the bus doesn't move until every single passenger has found a seat and no standing passengers are permitted - a policy that would kill London's bus network stone dead.
IslandDweller | 21.01.18 - 9:15 a.m. | #
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Quite a few of the operators have EcoDrive systems to monitor how drivers drive for fuel efficiency reasons. There is a competitive spirit amongst many drivers to achieve the top score. These are undoubtedly the careful, diligent drivers.
But there are also the full on / full off cowboy drivers that we have all experienced.
These are the ones most likely to be the cause of many slips, trips and falls.
QED Only turn the message on when a cowboy is driving. We will all appreciate the peace and quiet when there's a good driver at the wheel.
Petras409 | 21.01.18 - 9:19 a.m. | #
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The main reason people sumble on moving buses relates to the way many are driven. I am 74, but reasonably competent in moving about. Buses sometimes go too slowly (driver trying to adjust to the timetable) and sometimes too fast (driver trying to adjust to the timetable). In either case this creates unpredictability for passengers, who have to make judgements about when to get up in leaving the bus. The sensible thing is to get up after the bus has stopped, but doing this can lead to the bus doors closing before one has got off (cries from the public-spirited: " 'old on driver!" .... So, I get up a little early, and (sometimes) the bus lurches forwards with potentially dangerous results. Sometimes when getting on a bus, the driver is in a hurry and accelerates away (with potentially dangerous results.
I could go on ad tedium analysing the relationship between stumble and bus driver behaviour, but in the end it all comes down to bus driver behaviour. If TFL really want to reduce accidents on buses, it is bus companies and their employess that need to be reformed, not the passenger.
dg writes: TfL's Bus Safety Programme also includes training for all bus drivers.
Brian | 21.01.18 - 9:38 a.m. | #
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To follow the logic to its conclusion, they would need an announcement before pulling away from traffic lights, zebra crossings, tailbacks etc. It’s simply daft, people are already mentally editing it out.
Artie | 21.01.18 - 9:48 a.m. | #
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I consider myself to be a reasonably tolerant person but after 15 minutes listening to that announcement on the C10, regardless of whether its early, late or on time, I'm at the end of my tether. I feel really sorry for the poor drivers who have to listen to it all day long.
Richard | 21.01.18 - 10:03 a.m. | #
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50% of bus drivers are below average at their job, so it will take a while for TfL to train them all properly.
But in case TfL manage to rewrite the laws of mathematics, they should note: not just bus drivers, traffic around the bus can be unpredictable, so require all drivers in London to take special tests, also cyclists and pedestrians, also dogs and cats. Presumably drivers are taught to hit pigeons rather than swerve, so me need to train the birds.
Accidents will happen and, unfortunately, as long as the morons have any say, so will badly thought through targets and methods for reducing them.
Max Roberts | 21.01.18 - 10:10 a.m. | #
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How does TFL measure the success of this trial? Presumably based on accident stats? How do they collect these stats? Can we organise a few “accidents” over the next few weeks to make sure the trial ends in failure?
Ed | 21.01.18 - 10:15 a.m. | #
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Two simple changes would reduce falling over on buses enormously. One would be for passengers to always hold on when not seated - which would require banning big luggage or portable infants (unless carried in a sling).
The other would be to abolish stairs. Bendy buses would do the trick nicely.
Malcolm | 21.01.18 - 10:22 a.m. | #
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I was always happy with the display board and no audio. The announcments are one of the reasons i have my headphones in.
If the displays are broken switch on audio but apart from that keep it off.
Will all the tubes start to announce uocoming stations? I assume some do but i dont notice that.
Tim m | 21.01.18 - 10:30 a.m. | #
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Has it been established that it’s the infirm falling over, rather than the inebriated?
Jimmy | 21.01.18 - 10:32 a.m. | #
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Hmmm. Coming soon... speaking traffic lights. "Oi! Red means bleeding Stop!"
RogerW | 21.01.18 - 11:24 a.m. | #
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Yes, the beep of the door closing is the warning message that works (which is the modern form of "Ding Ding"). If people ignore that, a computerised message that is usually wrong will not help.
It has made bus travel less pleasant (if that's the right word) and made me think "I'd rather drive".
There are too many nanny-state messages on TfL already, this one just makes them a laughing stock.
Geoff Lumley | 21.01.18 - 11:25 a.m. | #
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I am now subconsciously avoiding TfL buses until the end of this trial.
The TfL Business Plan acknowledges haemorrhaging bus revenue, and the need to encourage passengers back on board. This isn't helping.
Planner | 21.01.18 - 11:29 a.m. | #
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@Max Roberts
50% of bus drivers are below average at their job, so it will take a while for TfL to train them all properly.
You do realise that after training, 50% of bus drivers will still be below average...?
Jon Jones | 21.01.18 - 11:30 a.m. | #
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OMG - cheers Jon: that's gotta be quote of the day!
RogerW | 21.01.18 - 11:49 a.m. | #
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On the contrary, the same TfL genius who devised the *message* has also set a training target of every driver to score above average.
On another note, all Ibus displays at stops seem to have been out of action the last couple of days, displaying garbage about IP addresses and authentication.
Strabismus | 21.01.18 - 12:02 p.m. | #
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You’d love the EL2 bus that I’ve just got on towards Barking station.
At every stop, after the customary pause, the iBus proudly announces “Leyton Bakers Wood Green Dagenham Dock” No route number and no ‘annoying’ announcement.
It does seem to get some of the (next bus stop) names correct if it can be bothered to announce them at all!
Rob Healy | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 12:54 p.m. | #
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They tried hard yesterday at the invisible boundary that is Kennington Church, with the thoughtful activation of an i-bus announcement warning of a change of driver, when approaching the stop. Trouble is, of course, after stopping we were dutifully asked to hold on because the bus was about to move, followed by a multi-minute change of driver operation including a cab-to-cab analogue chat with a passing bus on the other side of the road.
Yawn
NickW | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 3:17 p.m. | #
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All of this aural stress and fuming fulmination can't be good for your ticker Mr Geezer.
Why not take the trendy tube instead?
drD | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 6:08 p.m. | #
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Most people have more than the average number of legs.
ian | 21.01.18 - 6:35 p.m. | #
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The plague of 'spurious announcements' is spreading wider.
My Southern Metro service had just left Clapham Junction this morning on its 5 minute journey to Victoria when a recorded announcement stated that 'A refreshment trolley will be offering drinks and snacks'!
(Southern Railway (ranked bottom out of all operators in terms of passenger satisfaction) cancelled all on-board catering three years ago).
RayL | 21.01.18 - 6:47 p.m. | #
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Actually, I now wonder if they’ll start a similar trial on the Tube... after all, people must have similar accidents!
Rob Healy | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 7:35 p.m. | #
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In just one stop on the 199 I took today there were announcements about making sure you don't leave buggies unattended, not standing on the stairs, the next stop being closed (twice), the bus moving off warning and the driver using the mike to berate a passenger for wanting to get off at the next stop ('didn't you hear the Tannoy announcement?').
Sheesh.
Chris | 21.01.18 - 7:50 p.m. | #
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i wonder if the announcement is actually more aimed at encouraging bus drivers to pull away more gently ?!
ADS | Homepage | 21.01.18 - 10:59 p.m. | #
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Since London Northwestern have taken over from London Midland, the number of nannying DVA messages has shot up. We now get told how to take pushchairs and buggies off the train even. Every morning. During the commute. And about being careful moving around the station. And about seeing abandoned luggage. And about the wind and the rain and the snow and the ice and the sun and the moon and air pollution and peanut allergies and... where does this ever stop?!
Uncle Audrey | 22.01.18 - 11:12 a.m. | #
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People who are blaming TfL need to redirect their ire to the Mayor. It is the Mayor who has set TfL targets to get deaths and injuries reduced on public transport. TfL only do what the Mayor demands.
For those criticising drivers I would suggest they spend some time on buses in Waltham Forest. We now have road humps littering our main roads. No matter how carefully drivers handle them it is all too easy to be thrown off balance. I loathe trying to walk down the stairs on the bus when it passes over road humps. I now have to come down stairs two stops early as there are two humps between my usual stop and the preceding one. Almost impossible to avoid being thrown off balance. Furthermore different bus types have different types of suspension setting which, again, affects how well a bus copes with road surfaces regardless of how competent the driver is.
The simple fact is that a wide range of factors affect bus safety. Many of those issues are outwith the control of TfL and bus drivers. This then rather begs the question as to why the Mayor is imposing ridiculous targets on people with limited influence on the actual risks. I look forward to the Mayor demanding the removal of road humps and requiring compulsory retraining and retesting of car, van and lorry drivers and cyclists and pedestrians.
PC | 22.01.18 - 2:13 p.m. | #
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From the latest TfL Commissioner's Report:
"We have been trialling a new announcement on our bus network to help reduce the number of people hurt in slips, trips and falls, which caused up to 3,000 injuries on London Buses last year. We encountered some initial problems with the timing of the announcements but this has now been rectified. We will carefully monitor the trial to see how effective it is in reducing injuries."
So officialdom thinks they've fixed it :(
diamond geezer | Homepage | 23.01.18 - 9:04 a.m. | #
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The Bus Announcer finally cracked today on the 83. There were no 'please hold ons' but after every stop instead of saying "83 to Golders Green" she said "83 Thirlmere Garden Golders Green".
Then she took us on a magical mystery tour. She got Wembley Central Station correct but also announced "Elthorne Park Road" (the 83 hasn't been anywhere near there since the 1960s), "Central Middlesex Hospital", and some farm I had never heard of. She got some stops right but then, as I was preparing to get off at Wembley Park Station she said "Turnham Green Station".
I think it is time to send her Thirlmere Garden a retirement home.
Geoff Lumley | 25.01.18 - 4:58 p.m. | #
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For Buses the please hold on, or whatever is useful for electric/hybrids where there is no clear change in engine note before the vehicle departs off.
But also for buses are there not still some double decks where the staircase handrail is not continous?
And for Escalators what about those stations where the handrail drags behind the speed of the steps?
High Path | 05.02.18 - 3:59 a.m. | #
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