please empty your brain below
0630-0930; 1600-1900 Monday-Friday
dg writes: 0635-0927; 1605-1857
So if I commence a journey by touching in at, say, 15.15 and touch out at 16.07 will I be charged for the entire journey at peak rates for the sake of the 2 minutes?
dg writes: No, only the touching-in time counts.
It wasn't supposed to be condescending. Sorry. It should've been more "It's interesting how different people have different perspectives on these things," but that didn't come across in the words.
dg writes: It counts as off-peak.
Also, are there not places, ? Stratford, where if one changes trains one has to swipe the Oyster card.
dg writes: Let's not go there today.
I am glad I live outside London and only visit with a Travelcard! How the hell are tourists meant to cope?
dg writes: Tourists (and everyone else) are meant to trust the system. Touch in, touch out, pay what it says.
How will the Elizabeth line be priced, does anyone know yet?
dg writes: Nobody knows yet.
Also I think it’d be interesting to plot the difference in 10x single tube fares (a return each weekday) vs a weekly travelcard. Given the former are frozen but the latter aren’t, how long will it be before travelcards only become worth it if you travel at weekends?
It doesn't have a flat fare on tubes and railways because London is huge, and there'd be some unwelcome disparities.
The six zones are an attempt to simplify things... and, in the context of single tube journeys, they do.
I was trying to find TfL Zonal Fares and daily capping limits on TfL's website on Friday, for a work-related matter. It is much more difficult than it used to be.
To those who think Travelcards are / may become only relevant at weekends, I say DO NOT FORGET RAILCARDS or the OUTBOUNDARY traveller.
• A railcard discount can be applied to an Oyster Card (with a daily cap just below the Travelcard price); it CANNOT be applied to Contactless (i.e. phone or bank card payment). It gives discount on rail, Underground, DLR, but not bus or tram.
• An OutBoundary Travelcard e.g. Hitchin to London Zones 1-6 is much cheaper than Hitchin to London Terminals plus the daily cap for Oyster or Contactless travel all day around London - AS AN ADULT, before you start considering Railcard discounts.
Make a journey using Oyster, and the fare pops up on the gate as you exit. Make a journey using contactless, and the fare appears in your account tomorrow.
We have entered the "Swipe and Trust" era.
For example Mile End to Oxford Circus at 1800 is NOT a peak fare whereas Oxford Circus to Mile End at the same time IS a peak fare.
dg writes: Today's post fails to mention numerous complications.
Thanks dg, you indirectly saved me £15.
If you travel through z1 off peak you pay more than if you choose a more circuitous route avoiding z1, I understand that. But how does the 'Oyster computer' know which route you took if using the non z1 circuitous route you did not have to touch in your Oyster card other than at the start and end of your journey? Does it do a journey time calculation?
dg writes: Short answer - it doesn't know. TfL assume you take the direct route, unless you touch a pink reader to tell them otherwise.
I didn't realise that the Overground services out of Liverpool Street, and TfL Rail had different pricing structures, could you shed some light on why this is? I, obviously incorrectly, assumed that everything on the tube map had the same pricing unless indicated otherwise, i.e. trams.
dg writes: For historical reasons. When TfL takes over a 'new' line, it can't always simplify the fare structure.
DG in the first of what might be a series of explainers draws attention to the fact that there is hope. Even if few of us can aspire to a complete understanding, breaking it into baby steps shows that a useful grasp of the matter may be within reach, if we listen carefully. Bravo.
If one touches in at more than 1 pink reader en route does that stuff up the system?
dg writes: No.
A thought occurs: this pricing madness really needs a book, 'Oyster for Dummies', written by you, Geofftech and the handful of others who HAVE managed to disentangle an absolute mess.
dg writes: The first link in today's post leads to the excellent (and very detailed) Oyster-Rail website. I suggest you have a good dig around that.
Presumably the ongoing antagonism between Khan and Grayling means no one soon is going to bang heads together and sort this out. Journeys between A and B should have 2 prices, peak (Mon to Fri defined hours) and off-peak (the rest) and appropriate caps should apply. The only exception should possibly be z1 being permanently 'peak'. Is there not a single London MP who will take up this issue and make it his crusade?
dg writes: I hope nobody does that. Pink readers save some people a lot of money.
For the very reason of being able to see your journey total and balance on the display at the gates, I will always use Oyster.
But then again I'm one of those who keeps their contactless cards in lead sleeves, just in case!!
Also, we can go a long way by train in Z5 due to the orbital nature of lines in these parts which is also quite cost effective.
Not that you can tell that from the tfl website which is impenetrable now.
So journeys from Harold Wood are only more expensive than from Upminster if it is off-peak, and the destination is in zones 2 or 3.
And if I 'swap' my oyster card with someone taking the exact opposite journey to me (e.g. Watford to Baker Street and Baker Street to Watford) will the end result be that both ticket fares are considered as single zone journeys?
With a Travelcard there is almost a positive incentive to make marginal trips in the evenings or at weekends. With everyone looking at daily caps or, worse, daily deductions from their bank account, if they use contactless, people are questioning their travel needs and the associated cost.
The longer the fares freeze goes on with caps / Travelcard prices drifting away from (TfL) single fare rates the worse it gets. The Hopper ticket is also fatally undermining the value of Bus and Tram passes.
People need to consider what happens when TfL start dismantling the season ticket structure (some TfL people would love to see them gone) and replace it with charging for every trip and then start playing games with "caps" to screw more money out of people. What might look like a benevolent fares freeze today may look like a fares increase nightmare in future years. At some point all this opaqueness over fares and validities is going to come back and bite TfL very badly.
I think the complexities of the fare system scares tourists, and now we don't have ticket offices, there's "no one" to trust on the matter. I spend half my time in the ticket hall convincing customers to go for the cheaper option.
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