please empty your brain below
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What is the correct eye level height for a sticker that is intended to be read by someone in a wheel chair?
popartist | 10.08.19 - 7:35 a.m. | #
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Three door layout to improve boarding times is good. What needed to happen though is proper revenue protection so that people judge that the chance of getting caught is high enough that chancing a free ride isn't worth it.
Have to agree about "sweat box" though, DG. The concept is good, the execution was awful, probably because of the cost and weight of that terrible visual design......all that expensive double curved glass too!
100andthirty | 10.08.19 - 7:52 a.m. | #
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Having one staircase for going up and another for going down sounds like a good idea to me. It's how the trams work in Hong Kong and if I remember rightly it's also how the buses in Berlin work.
Alan | 10.08.19 - 8:00 a.m. | #
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For years in Berlin you were allowed to enter the bus at any door until 8pm after which time you had to use the front. Now you have to always enter via the driver’s door and show a ticket / touch in. However the drivers barely check tickets and quite often people get on the middle / rear doors anyway if they’re opened. It has speeded things back up again. I’ve had my ticket checked plenty of times on the S or U Bahn but never the busses.
FYI | 10.08.19 - 8:11 a.m. | #
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Is this a foretaste for what is going to happen with Boris as prime minister?
Brian | 10.08.19 - 8:26 a.m. | #
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Very frustrating for us hold-outs of Paper Travelcards. I used to relish getting on the rear door, going straight upstairs before the tourists crowding the front door had even mangled themselves into a coherent queue.
R | 10.08.19 - 9:02 a.m. | #
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Bus Stop M is on the north side of Bow Road (for buses going east).
Bow to Liverpool Street is a westbound journey.
Please explain.
RayL | 10.08.19 - 9:02 a.m. | #
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Bus routes in London are an advanced topic only taught at graduate level or above, RayL... Route 8 also goes North before turning West
Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 10.08.19 - 9:07 a.m. | #
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Alan, the trolleybuses (and buses) in Bournemouth used to work that way: open platform and rear staircase for boarding, with front staircase and front door for exit, the door being opened/closed by the driver using a mechanical lever.
Ian | 10.08.19 - 9:25 a.m. | #
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Presumably, Boris intended to introduce full-service conductors on these buses, an idea with some merit, but this was bastardised by Peter Hendy who insisted on downgrading them to door-checkers.
So, yes, I suspect that Boris has some experience of good ideas being undermined by civil servants on ideological grounds, and I am sure that he will have learned from that experience.
Max Roberts | 10.08.19 - 9:28 a.m. | #
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bert must be fuming by now
LDN | 10.08.19 - 9:31 a.m. | #
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Elderly lady with shopping trolley would have had a free pass, so not tapping in would have had no consequences other than not being counted in the ridership statistics.
As for using the rear staircase only to go down - I remember the prototype "V3" bus from the early eighties, when it ran on my local route 77, had signs on its two staircases - one staircase only for going up, and one only for going down. Seems a good idea.
timbo | 10.08.19 - 9:46 a.m. | #
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Fiddler on the Roof - Topol also had two staircases in his dream house: 'one going up, and one even longer going down.'
scrumpy | 10.08.19 - 9:54 a.m. | #
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I had to do a double take when I arrived here this morning. My immediate thought was: "Isn't this the same as yesterdays post?"
X-Plaistow | 10.08.19 - 9:58 a.m. | #
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I suspect you'd might have got 2 days worth of blog post had you done this journey on Monday morning with the bleary-eyed workers operating in commuter mode!
As we don't have any Routemasters running anywhere near where I live, I'm so conditioned to using the front doors only that on the few occasions I have used one, I've always entered by the front doors anyway!
I'm going to have to get over my feelings of doing something illicit and rectify that while I still can!
Cornish Cockney | 10.08.19 - 10:12 a.m. | #
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so these buses have gone from 3 oyster readers down to 1 reader. hopefully when the full transition occurs, TfL will move one of the unused readers to the right hand side of the front door (opposite the driver).
Dublin buses have this arrangement, and it seems to work ok.
ADS | Homepage | 10.08.19 - 10:44 a.m. | #
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Most of yesterday's and today's post and comments are re-runs of what was written 7 or 8 years ago about Ken's bendy-buses. At least honours are even between the two previous Mayors over providing opportunities for fraudulent travel... and for wasting £millions in achieving it.
Paul | 10.08.19 - 10:53 a.m. | #
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When you said that all the events I'm about to describe actually happened, I was expecting someone trying to board with their horse, or distilling whisky, or a marmoset flying a drone, instead I get a tail of everyday London folk.
Still Anon | 10.08.19 - 10:53 a.m. | #
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When route 25 changed from bendy buses to double deckers eight years ago, TfL ran a very similar campaign to explain how the reduced number of doors worked, and how to go upstairs.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 10.08.19 - 11:24 a.m. | #
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It will be interesting how boarding times vary between the Borismasters on the 8, and other routes where open boarding is still allowed.
I always used the rear door as it's less busy and the rear staircase is quieter too. I suspect that on the 8 they'll be even quieter now
Many people with season tickets probably never bothered to tap in before as they didn't "need" to. These people tapping in will increase the passenger numbers ANS slow down boarding, but won't actually bring in any extra revenue overall even if the bus share ends up higher.
Mikey C | 10.08.19 - 11:29 a.m. | #
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I too thought at first glance that I'd already read this, but was delighted to find that I hadn't.
Sarah | 10.08.19 - 12:20 p.m. | #
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In addition to blue being the colour for mandatory signs in many countries (but not for example in the US, Canada, Australia or Mexico), the blue square with white pictogram of a wheelchair user is the International Symbol of Access (designed by a student, Susanne Koefoed, in Denmark in 1968 (for the International Society for Rehabilitation of the Disabled, it seems)).
♿︎
I would guess it became widespread after it was adopted by the ISO in 1974 (and then the UN's International Year of Disabled Persons in 1981).
Andrew | 10.08.19 - 12:21 p.m. | #
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So does this mean that passengers can't use the front doors to get off anymore???
AnonFR | 10.08.19 - 1:09 p.m. | #
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We are more than 'ironically back to where with the Bendybus'(yesterday's great post), we now have the problem of two stairways.
Unless they make these one-way only, at busy stops, boarding will inevitably be slowed down, as those at the front of the upper deck will use the front stairway to exit, which is the same one to which front-door boarders will be drawn to access the upper deck.
A queue to go up will form as people allow those coming down to exit first by the middle door, and boarding will come to a temporary halt.
Martin | 10.08.19 - 1:47 p.m. | #
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Martin, calm down, you are describing every other London double decker bus.
ollie | 10.08.19 - 1:57 p.m. | #
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Why do some people insist on alighting from the front set of doors on a bus that clearly displays a no exit sticker for those doors and therefore delay the people boarding, when I was a bus driver I never allowed it.
fishislandskin | 10.08.19 - 2:54 p.m. | #
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fishislandskin - I do this sometimes. If the aisle is crowded (more on single decker buses this issue) and I'm sat on the seat behind the driver I always exit by the front. And I always thank the driver for it.
A couple of times I've missed getting off trying to get through people with suitcases/bags blocking the aisle and the driver just thinks I'm stood there.
R | 10.08.19 - 3:34 p.m. | #
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I think this reinforces my feeling that the vast majority of public information, in which I would include advertisements, is a complete waste of time and money. People find things out for themselves or learn by word of mouth.
RogerB | 10.08.19 - 4:08 p.m. | #
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If only there was some way to design a bus so that the stairs wouldn't get blocked off by people standing around on the lower deck and not responding to announcements about seats upstairs.
Tim Roll-Pickering | Homepage | 10.08.19 - 5:27 p.m. | #
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What purpose would a conductor serve? Cash fares are no longer taken on board; even before they were phased out the number of passengers paying cash had dwindled to a tiny percentage.
Adding a conductor adds the (not inconsiderable) cost of a second crew member. How would those costs be recovered? Would they generate (or collect) enough additional fares to cover the cost of employing them? Doubtful!
That Boris Johnson dreamed up (or was persuaded of) this idea of a nostalgic hop-on-at-the-back hold-on-tight-now any-more-fares-please bus leaves me wondering when he last travelled by bus himself.
Sir Peter Hendy, on the other hand, had the vision to ensure that as the cost of adding a person to supervise the (unnecessary) open platform could never stand up to serious scrutiny, sanity could return and the buses were capable of being operated with just a driver.
Malc M | 10.08.19 - 8:49 p.m. | #
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Round these parts we have only one door and one set of stairs and it seems to work fine. Everybody gets off before anybody gets on. Same as with train and tube carriages - even though those have more than one set of doors.
Sarah | 10.08.19 - 8:52 p.m. | #
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Single door buses are hopeless in London as they cause massive delays with people boarding and getting off at the same stop
They work fine on quiet routes or where most people go from the start of a route to the end (e.g. football or shopping shuttles) but in London there's a continuous churn of people on and off the bus.
Mikey C | 10.08.19 - 8:57 p.m. | #
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Loading an empty single door double deck bus takes about 4 minutes, A 2 door bus about 2 minutes, a 3 door bendybus 90 seconds.
Those figures are similar ratio through the journey, creating increased stop time. When the 25 was converted from routemaster to OPO in the 90s the scheduled journey time from Ilford to Victoria increased 50%. A significant cost increase in vehicles against staffing savings.
scrumpy | 10.08.19 - 10:15 p.m. | #
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I have a Freedompass, its valid for travel at anytime so if I dont tap in on a bus ..., likewise if its on the tube or national rail at the weekends no one cares. I can show my pass to any inspector. Also perhaps that person who just walked up stairs had a paper ticket so cant actually tap in.
Andrew Jarman | 11.08.19 - 8:36 a.m. | #
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I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that the youth who just walked upstairs didn't have a paper ticket.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 11.08.19 - 8:51 a.m. | #
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As a frequent passenger on the 38 from Dalston to north Holborn area over the last 35 yrs i have noticed 3 things which I believe contributed to the change of Routemasters to something safer.
1. A teenager, who while looking in the direction of travel of the bus as it slowed down in the outer lane, stepped off the rear platform into the path of a car in the inside lane.
2. the common wearing of Walkman/headphones so that when seated by the windows upstairs the conductor was reluctant to pursue collection of fares after asking if there were 'any more fares please?'
3.the gang practice of "steaming" whereby passengers on the top deck would be robbed of their wallets, under threat of being stabbed, by a group of youths who would be off the back of the bus within 3 minutes..
the other eric | 11.08.19 - 10:36 a.m. | #
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It's vital that every user taps in, otherwise bus passenger counts are less than those travelling. TfL hasn't used survey data for a lot of the recent cuts, just what's on the card readers.
The tale of how they counted passengers for the central London bus cuts on 15 Jun is tantamount to fraud - and that was from a 'director' of TfL. No-one on the TfL Board has transport operational experience - they believe what they are told.
Those recorded swipes only show (if the driver has been able to keep the boarding point accurate - the machines ought to be linked to GPS as the on-bus service info is) where the passenger joined the bus, not where they left it, a lost piece of crucial data.
Always tap in, please. It's the best way to keep buses on the road.
Joel | 11.08.19 - 5:04 p.m. | #
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Who is entitled to travel on TfL buses without tapping in or showing a paper ticket?
I think it's only:
Children under 5 with a fare-paying adult (what is a non-fare-paying adult?)
Children 5-10 (can travel unaccompanied and no photocard required).
langdon | 12.08.19 - 10:26 a.m. | #
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Joel: If you have an ENCTS pass and don't show it, then TfL won't get any revenue.
langdon: Holders of staff Oyster cards don't need to touch in.
Gerry | 12.08.19 - 10:32 a.m. | #
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ENCTS revenue for operators isn't by individual trips, it's a four-weekly block allocation determined by DfT and reviewed regularly.
Non-London ENCTS passes don't register on TfL's machines; drivers are meant to press the 'PASS' key for each such boarding. Bit difficult on LTs other than route 8 if boarding is at the middle or back door, but 'PASS' is for all non-swipe tickets, eg rail-issued paper tickets. Distinguishing 'authorities to travel' isn't possible, unless Wayfarers have been updated since I learned this.
Small bus companies need ENCTS revenue; in one case it's 50% of their income. They record travellers keenly, to argue for more money at the next DfT review.
So the point holds - other than staff, please please swipe... It's money for TfL, it's jobs and it keeps buses on the road, and makes London a near-decent place to be...
Joel | 12.08.19 - 3:17 p.m. | #
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Well, as all the NRMs are currently have their door controls modified at some expense it's clearly going to happen on all routes. Very wise to conduct a trial to see how things can be done better for the whole-scale roll-out.
Like most of these things, after a few months I'm sure everyone will be wondering what all the fuss was about. I'm reminded of the predicted Armageddon with cashless boarding.
Steve | 20.08.19 - 10:45 a.m. | #
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Result of trial...
"Our successful pilot on the route 8 has shown that boarding using the front door only doesn't delay the service and reduces fare evasion, so we will change all other New Routemasters to follow suit"
tfl.gov.uk/2020/january/new-routemaster-buses-to-become-front-boarding-only
diamond geezer | Homepage | 10.01.20 - 4:39 p.m. | #
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