please empty your brain below
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Interesting. I’m surprised that routes through Loughton, Buckhurst Hill and other parts of Essex which ought to be in London, are not on the list.
Dan | 18.02.23 - 7:08 a.m. | #
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Scratch that. The number 20 *is* on your list! I should pay better attention.
Dan | 18.02.23 - 7:24 a.m. | #
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Oh for the day of Green Line buses that really did go places - outside of London
Brian | 18.02.23 - 8:09 a.m. | #
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The 246 on Sundays in summer doesn’t figure anywhere on this list?
Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 18.02.23 - 8:47 a.m. | #
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Southern Heights,
But it is surprising just how little of the 246 bus route is outside London. Basically just the steep hill from the top of the North Downs into Westerham. So even if you include the Chartwell add-on it is very much a London bus - although it certainly doesn't feel it when travelling on it.
Alan Hannaford | 18.02.23 - 8:50 a.m. | #
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The 405 is really a bus route of two halfs - the congested half within the London boundary and the fast run been Coulsdon and Redhill that isn't much faster by car.
It might be twice as far for me to go to Redhill than to Croydon but it is generally quicker and always seems quicker (and with nicer views).
Pedantic of Purley | 18.02.23 - 8:52 a.m. | #
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No need to apologise for this sort of content. I find it fascinating.
Keep it coming!
Hadders | 18.02.23 - 9:26 a.m. | #
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Do non TFL bus companies run buses into London? What is the most Londony non TFL bus?
Ian | 18.02.23 - 9:28 a.m. | #
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Starts stopwatch to time how long before suspiciously similar “news” article appears on another London “based” website.
Marcus | 18.02.23 - 9:32 a.m. | #
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I think this explains why Surrey County Council is one of the boroughs who are part of the judicial review against the expansion of ULEZ!
I though it odd that they were the only non-London borough involved but they seem to have considerable say in matters concerning London!
Cornish Cockney | 18.02.23 - 9:46 a.m. | #
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467 - it is double deck because of the school traffic, using single deckers for the quiet parts of the day/week means allocating more resources.
Is the 362 terminus at Grange Hill inside or outside London?
Traditionalists know that the 242 and PB1 should have won - neither of them were in London.
Still Anon | 18.02.23 - 9:54 a.m. | #
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Given the characteristically high attention to detail here, I feel compelled to correct one minor detail about my former three local bus routes, namely that only two of them run fast to Bluewater, whereas the 492 serves numerous stops outside London all the way there. Great post!
Paul S | Homepage | 18.02.23 - 10:08 a.m. | #
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While Paul S, the other two buses the 96 and 428 also serve Darent Valley hospital, which is an important facility for the residents of SE London as well as Kent.
Mikey C | 18.02.23 - 10:53 a.m. | #
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bussplaining: (like mansplaining) The art of telling a bus enthusiast something they already know.
kendo | 18.02.23 - 11:21 a.m. | #
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Just been on the 406, wholly within Surrey. It's been going past my house, I think, since 1923.
Mike | 18.02.23 - 11:45 a.m. | #
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Imberbus?
Jonathan Wadman | 18.02.23 - 11:51 a.m. | #
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I wonder how TfL decides which stops are worthy of it posting route info at bus stops. Many stops on the 313 out in Potters' Bar aren't the standard TfL ones (not that TfL could add a timetable) whilst routes like the 216 have proper TfL stops and timetables outside of Greater London
Matthieu | 18.02.23 - 12:10 p.m. | #
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The 80 also briefly exits London at High down and Downview prisons, whilst the 275 also has a very brief section in Woodford Bridge at Tomswood Road in Essex.
dg writes: yes I know.
mungbean | 18.02.23 - 1:42 p.m. | #
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Matthieu - It depends on the county that the bus route operates in. Hertfordshire doesn't bother whereas Surrey does and has considerably more routes outside London operated by TFL.
mungbean | 18.02.23 - 1:44 p.m. | #
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Surrey CC seems happy, keen almost, to subsidise TfL routes for their Surrey portion.
It is probably the best value for money for them. In general bus services in Surrey are pretty good for the population served.
Pedantic of Purley | 18.02.23 - 1:57 p.m. | #
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The London/Surrey border around Cheam and Ewell is an anomaly in winding its way through suburban streets. It was a compromise agreed back in 1965 when Greater London was created, and has been the subject of controversy ever since - most recent with the proposed ULEZ boundary. The two Epsom-Kingston routes (406 and 418) are frequent and busy most of the day. And in response to Ian's question about non-TfL routes penetrating London, I think the H1 must be in the running. It links Epsom Hospital with St Helier Hospital, which are the two halves of one NHS trust.
Peter | 18.02.23 - 2:08 p.m. | #
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Mike. The 406 starts in the London Borough of Kingston upon Thames. Just past the Worcester Park road it enters Surrey. About 50/50 I estimate. Similar to the 418.
Marmaduke Jinks | 18.02.23 - 2:09 p.m. | #
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Thanks. Perhaps the stops in Surrey (and standardised TfL shelters and timetables) would be subsidised/paid for by the county.
Matthieu | 18.02.23 - 2:30 p.m. | #
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Most of the Surrey routes were adopted by TfL as a result of Arriva's progressive withdrawal from the area and at the time when TfL's budget was at its most generous.
It's interesting to speculate that had Arriva also withdrawn from the 402 and 477 during this period, there's a good chance there would be TfL buses running to Sevenoaks and Orpington-Swanley-Dartford today.
Paul | 18.02.23 - 3:15 p.m. | #
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Presumably at least some of these are survivors from the London Country network.
David B | 18.02.23 - 3:38 p.m. | #
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I suspect some of these routes, the 166 and 465 in particular, are actually part-funded by the county council, so are joint TfL/ council routes, otherwise they wouldn't be running so far outside London.
Would be interesting to know which routes are solely funded by TfL
Greg | 18.02.23 - 3:43 p.m. | #
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Greg,
They are.
Pedantic of Purley | 18.02.23 - 5:20 p.m. | #
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The first and last stops on the 362 are inside London but in order to effect its turnaround, it needs to utilise the carriageway of Manor Road, entirely in Essex.
felix | 18.02.23 - 5:23 p.m. | #
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Other buses with over 40% of the route outside London: 492, 258, 372
Over 33%: 203, 117, 397, 107, 375, 498
Over 25%: 370, 142, R5/R10, 233, 470
Over 20%: 331, 327, 298 (and the 246 on summer Sundays)
diamond geezer | Homepage | 18.02.23 - 5:44 p.m. | #
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For all of the pedants that transport posts seem to attract (including myself!), nobody seems to have picked up on the missing bracket at the end of the antepenultimate paragraph.
Jamesthegill | 18.02.23 - 6:25 p.m. | #
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Should you ever need to again, there are many websites which will remove PDF security instantly, and without importing spyware or anything
Herned | 18.02.23 - 9:24 p.m. | #
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Hertfordshire and Surrey made different deals with TfL. In Herts the county took over all the former TfL infrastructure, and thus the posted information is provided by HCC. But in Surrey the TfL stops and shelters remain the property of TfL, and they alone are responsible for providing the information on them. This leads to the information about non-TfL services on these stops being decidedly sub-par.
D9000 | 19.02.23 - 10:12 a.m. | #
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Thank you Felix re 362.
That 327 stat is unexpected.
Still Anon | 19.02.23 - 1:28 p.m. | #
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The Surrey/TFL overlap is such that there are TFL bus stops along the Portsmouth Road in Surbiton, before the Surrey border, with only non-TFL services (I think from after the 465 turns off to head to Surbiton Station)
No idea if unusual or not in wider London but always wondered why given the number of services that do go over the border!
Kingston Gooner | 19.02.23 - 7:55 p.m. | #
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Marcus - you can stop the stopwatch at 105 days (MyLondon have just run a similar article but with slightly different data).
diamond geezer | Homepage | 03.06.23 - 7:45 p.m. | #
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