please empty your brain below

5a. The seats are painted concrete and mostly longitudinal, unless you're one of the lucky-ish few to get an ironing board.

11. Long journeys may be an inconvenience - the trains have no loos.
A nicely balanced article. Crossrail is still good news overall, but there are snags, exactly as DG points out.

There are also no loos on any tube trains, and nobody makes a fuss about that. The typical (and maximum) lengths of crossrail journeys will be very similar to tube.
As a Victoria line regular, would be interested in a follow up article of when it's worth exiting Oxford Circus and entering Hanover Sq/Bond Street to save time
@Malcolm

but there are loos on the existing trains between Paddington and Reading/Heathrow, which the Crossrail trains will be replacing. Twyford to Paddington is nearly an hour.

Following on from the toilet thread of this post what is needed badly are convenient clean toilets on Stations in shopping streets and everywhere where people will be, thousands have been closed are we are forced to try to sneak into a local café or pub etc just to spend a penny.
@Michael Dover: A penny? I think the going rate now is eight shillings.

Connections with other lines: presumably the 'out of station' interchange list will have to grow?
How reassuring that it took literally no time at all before the responses to an article about Crossrail focused on loos. Happens every time it is discussed.

I suspect we may be waiting quite a while before TfL commit to any opening date. I've not heard anything about any stations being handed to the operators for training / familiarisation nor about the train testing in the core tunnel ramping up to anything like the planned service level. 100 days is nothing in respect of those activities so unless MTR & TfL have some clever trick up their sleeves to compress the time I don't see 9 December being achieved.
No toilets on trains? On ones that are 250 m long? Is Tfl unaware of the massive inconvenience this will cause the elderly, parents with children . ..the disabled? I know one Labour politician who says this could breach disability legislation. What percentage of passengers are expected to be on these trains for up to an hour? It will force people in the category to plan a journey not using these trains. And look! No tables (for people to place laptops, drinks, children to have activities). And any charging points for laptops and phones?is this a cost cutting measure as well? Aren't these the things we need on trains in the 21st century?
The trains have no USB chargers! What a disappointment!
Amazing things come to those who wait ;)
If arriving by bus into Liverpool Street for Crossrail services out east will you be guided down to the lower level or will signs inform you that some services start from the upper level? Or will these special services only appear on the indicator boards and generally become the domain of City folk who've taken the same train for years and aren't about to descend to subterranean depths to fight for a seat with folk who've travelled from the West End?
The thing that nobody seems to be talking about is the complete lack of toilets on the trains.
12) It's badly branded. Even if you can tolerate the controversial line name, the mode isn't 'Crossrail' but 'Elizabeth Line' due to a pigs ear being made of the Lilac Liz branding. It's not as good as you think.

13) Barbican station isn't served very well by the eastern exit of Farringdon station as it was subtly descoped. Only the westbound platform of the SSLs will have direct access to the deep platforms below, and the ticket halls are separate. It's not as good as you think.
I'm looking forward to the new train set. If it opens on Sunday 9th December I'll be there to "play". If it opens later, so be it.

50-something going on 15.
"Imagine the nightmare scenario in which things were so bad TfL had to delay December's launch until 2019, maybe even this time next year, and the grovelling press release that'd entail."
Opening officially delayed until next autumn.
Quelle surprise.
I see DG has just beaten me to it with the news that Crossrail core opening is delayed until Autumn 2019. Ho hum.
Crossrail is a fantastic achievement, seen in the wider picture on subway building.
They are building a major rail network in one of the busiest cities on earth, and you think that it will all go without a problem.
Real problems and delays North/South line Amsterdam, Second Avenue Subway NYC as two examples.
This blog post and prediction is incredibly timed.

Is it purely coincidence the news came just hours later? Or is DG a seer? Or does DG have somebody on the inside? We may never know.
Diamond Geezer for mayor. He knows everything that's going on before everyone else.
Amazing timing!
Once its fully open you'll be less likely to see the statue of Paddington, as to reason 7, all stations in London west of Paddington get a more frequent service, so the physical journey may not be significantly quicker, but you won't be waiting for up to 30 minutes if you've just missed the train, also journeys will/might be quicker because the inevitable wait outside Liverpool Street and Paddington for a clear platform will be eliminated.
It'll be later than you think...
Oops

I wonder if with the delay they will be able to skip out (or at least reduce) the interim periods (stage 1 on your list)?

dg writes: No. This morning's press release still says "When the central section of the Elizabeth line opens in autumn 2019, the railway will initially operate as three separate services as planned:"
My source tells me there aren't enough drivers either so when TfL put out their press release, it probably won't start, The London Mayor, Sadiq Khan ... Saves that line purely for the good news stories.
Amazing timing DG! How come you didn’t have a go at writing said grovelling press release? :P
Re Anon
This is no minor issue.
Remember the story recently of a disabled person on a train who was forced to wet themselves in their wheelchair? (There were toilets in that instance - but not working).
This is so significant for me as a parent that I will not use Crossrail travelling from Farringdon to Reading in the future. I will travel to Paddington where they have trains which have the things mentioned in my post (not just toilets).

So DG clearly knew the press release was coming today. So did the guys at London Reconnections (who have a piece out very shortly apparently). I wonder how much of an open secret this has been for a while...
@le ver

There is a difference between a toilet (or any other facility) not working in a train where one is expected (in which case reasonable adjustments should be made, such as having the train wait at a "convenient" station) and there being no toilets provided in the first place.

(Sorry to extend the toilet thread)

@Le Ver: I don't think they're really expecting anyone to travel all the way out to Reading from London on these trains, considering the GWR trains are going to be a lot faster.

Some good may come from this delay - we may get more station open days.
Crossrail means Crossrail.
@ Bob
60+ and Freedom Passes are valid on Crossrail and TfL Rail outside London (but not on the parallel NR services), so there may well be people travelling long distances on these loo-less trains.

Brilliant post! Talk about impeccable timing.
The 345s will offer faster services on Liverpool Street to Shenfield due to improved acceleration.

Also, they have air conditioning...
No-one seemed to pick up that the Mayor's Transport Strategy which was published in March 2018 states in a couple of places that "The Elizabeth line, due to open in 2019"

dg writes: It's always been due to be fully open in 2019.
@Silent Hunter
"The 345s will offer faster services on Liverpool Street to Shenfield due to improved acceleration.
Also, they have air conditioning... "

They are already operating Liverpool Street to Shenfield. But when the line through the core opens they will go via Whitechapel instead of direct, so the journey time between Stratford and Liverpool Street will increase...
Gutted by the delay - I was counting on the new TCR entrance/exit to make my commute bearable. I can only stand the dithering crowds on Oxford Street for so much longer :-(. Every the optimist, I'll hope for them opening it earlier than a year from now.
@Gerry
Are Freedom passes really going to be valid all the way to Reading? If so this is particularly generous. If you're caught short on the train you always have the option of hopping off at an intermediate station to use a loo.

This increases the huge discrepancy between the concessionary travel offered to Londoners compared to the provinces. Berkshire bus pass holders would love to have reciprocal rights to go to London on a train!

Erm... as of 26 minutes ago:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45367990

delayed until autumn 2019.

It won't be as good as you think.

dg writes: As of 150 minutes ago.
@ Martin
I'd expect 60+, Freedom and Staff passes to be valid on Crossrail out to Reading: they are already valid on TfL Rail to Shenfield.

Yes, TfL's concessions include 24/7 tube and rail as well as bus so they are far more generous than the bus-only ENCTS scheme that non-Londoners have.

It will be a bit awkward for the powers that be if HM croaks before the opening...
My prediction: Crossrail will not open before May 2020, leaving Sadiq Khan’s successor to sort out branding issues.
Sounds like a waste of money to me.
Wonder when a TfL PR-speak 'autumn' is.
Probably December or even January.
TfL should have run the Hogwarts Express through it. Then maybe some wizardry would have fixed the problems.
Methinks you have an inside source ;)
Martin / Gerry
ENCTS, 'Freedom pass' being the London local name, is governed by the Transport Act 2008 (+ amendments), which states that the issuing authority may (apart from statutory availability which can't be reduced) allow its passes to be used on other services within its boundary if it wishes.

London opted for 24/7, buses, trams, Underground, Overground and later main line rail within Greater London. Other authorities have made extensions to availability - Manchester lets its pass holders use suburban trains for example - some have even opened up their services to non-residents.

The Bus Services Act 2017 appears to have clauses which may erode that availability, through the ways Integrated Transport Authorities and other appointed bodies can design and tender for operators to run route networks.

While the government calls the Pass "sacrosanct", it costs a cash fortune as long as the cost:benefit process is ignored. Using the Pass keeps cars off the road, reducing pollution and accidents, allows older and disabled people to go out (we Pensioners are apparently stinking rich, spending the kids' inheritances) and use shops etc. On DfT's own model, every £1 spent via the Bus Pass generates over £3 to the national economy!

The real downside is having a pass (outside the cities) but having no or too few buses to use...

So if the Freedom Pass is available to Reading, it's the GLA's decision over-simply. And what the authority can give, you can take bets it'll try to take away...

I'd been intending not to try out a 345 until I could combine it with a ride through the Crossrail tunnels, but the co-incidence of this news arriving on the same day as my Freedom Pass made me decide perhaps I'd better not wait that long - and I had to try my pass out somewhere.........

As for the train - I'm glad I was only going from Stratford to Liverpool Street: seat backs too high, and too hard.
Meanwhile in Dublin the tram drivers are threatening to go on strike because their packed lunches might get a bit warm on the journey to their new depot.

Not to mention the recycled 1970s buses that pass for trains oopnorth.

You Londoners don't know yer born.
Bleedin Crossrail - pah!

@drD Those "recycled 1970s buses" (actually built in the 1980s) up North are soon to be replaced by nice new diesel and electric trains - and unlike Crossrail, they are still scheduled for later this year.
@timbo again again again again - ha! If only those Pacer trains were to be replaced by new diesel and electric trains.

The new diesel trains are going to be used on other services, mostly new routes, or non-stopping routes between major cities.

Mostly the Pacers are being replaced by other trains, some of which aren't much newer than the Pacers themselves. Trains that have been made surplus to requirements by improvements at Scotrail and GWR. Or indeed elsewhere at Northern. Basically the people with Pacers are highly unlikely to get anything new anytime soon.

I live on a line extensively served by Northern's Pacer trains, and yeah, a lot of people believe the marketing message from Northern. And they're going to be disappointed.

@drD - popular misconception about Pacers that they're recycled bus bodies. They're not. They were bus components used to make a bus - certainly not old buses cut up and shoved on a chassis.

*thinks that today is a record for colour changes*
Beautifully timed, it has to be said.

As for me, that's my move to Woolwich on hold... On the other hand, it means more time to save up for said move to Woolwich.
CROSSRAIL by W.T.McGonagle

Beautiful Railway Tunnel of the London clay
Alas, I am very sorry to say
That your starting date is subject to delay
Which means that commuters will not pay
Their fares to TfL each day
And get to ride on trains of specification high
But alas with no loos or wifi.
You knew, didn't you? More than those of us who work for TfL did. Most of us were just expecting a few weeks' slippage.
so my new timetable should now read:

» Brexit
» CrossRail (without on-board loos)
» Retirement (Freedom Pass no longer free)
» Boris becomes PM
» Mars landing (Chinese get there before US/Russians)
» England win World-Cup (on penaties!)
Well, I eventually arrived but everyone's gone home.
57 posts and no mention of whether Christian Wolmar will have to delay publication of 'The story of Crossrail', currently scheduled for 15 November [2018!] according to Amazon.

dg writes: He tweeted earlier that he won't be delaying publication. This may be why nobody mentioned it.
The new trains are horrible!! Pretty to look at if you're not commuting in it - half the seats of the old ones. Not very comfortable especially when the trains are slow and the journey is long. I used to commute on the Shenfield line and I used to inwardly pray for the old one to arrive instead. Thank goodness I've moved away from there now.
Ta DG, some of us oldies don't do tweets! However, it is a pity that Mr Wolmar will not be rewriting the last chapter or two because this delay is seriously significant.
11. Massive destruction of bus links to and from Crossrail.










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