please empty your brain below
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I remember being taught that a possessive apostrophe with no s was sometimes OK after names ending with an s, though I can't quite recall the exact rule.
martin | 22.08.13 - 7:25 a.m. | #
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There's one school of thought that "St James' Park" is acceptable as it follows a *classical or biblical name ending in S*. I certainly think it looks less messy than "St James's Park". An associated question: has the pronunciation of name of the park changed over the decades - i.e. is the current, "extra" `s' generally pronounced now, and did it not used to be, when it wasn't written?
Dominic H | 22.08.13 - 7:43 a.m. | #
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This post deserves a roundel of applause.
| 22.08.13 - 7:46 a.m. | #
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Speaking of Fonts, how about using Google Fonts: Hammersmith One for the headings on http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/ ?
Briantist | Homepage | 22.08.13 - 8:13 a.m. | #
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St James Park cannot possibly be grammatically correct?
How about Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park then?
Messiah | 22.08.13 - 8:36 a.m. | #
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It's not whether or not it's plural that matters; it's the fact that it ends in 's'.
The Oxford University Press's rule for possessives of names ending in 's' is that if the name has one syllable, it should be followed by 's, but if it has more than one syllable, then it should just have an apostrophe. So on this basis (which I like), James's would be correct. 'Mr Jones's dog ate Mrs Williams' cat', for example.
Another thing I like is that abbreviations like Mr and Mrs shouldn't have a full stop, because the last letter of the abbreviation is the same as that of the whole word (i.e. it hasn't been chopped off in the middle). So we have ed. but eds for editor and editors.
Sarah | Homepage | 22.08.13 - 8:51 a.m. | #
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Interesting comment about the number of syllables, Sarah. I didn't know that, but it makes sense. St Thomas' Hospital is more correct, then (and according to Wikipedia, was corrected "in the late 20th century")
I suggest that 'St James Park' is acceptable because the park doesn't belong to St James, any more than Russell Square belongs to Russell.
Paul | 22.08.13 - 9:20 a.m. | #
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When I lived in Ealing many years ago, I always found the District Line platforms a perculiar place.
It was like they were some weird interloper. All around was bustle. The heavily used mainline. The franticness of people alighting from the Central Line.
And then, tucked in a corner was this quiet, almost empty feeling bit of a station where the District Line sat; somewhat divorced from proceedings. Where half empty trains would slowly trundle in to lazy, mostly empty platforms, lazily let off some passengers before wheezing and hissing off in the other direction.
The roundels helped give the place the feeling of another time; the spareness of the platforms even more so. A big train shed but with little of the paraphernalia you'd expect in a train shed. No shops, no stalls. Just some buffers.
Never been to a major tube station quite like it.
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 22.08.13 - 9:25 a.m. | #
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"Trust TfL to keep some proper heritage on the station beneath London Underground HQ".
From 2015 it won't be LU HQ: 55 Broadway is to be turned into luxury flats. Will the historical roundel be sold off too?
Gordon | 22.08.13 - 11:40 a.m. | #
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"55 Broadway is to be turned into luxury flats". Will they be affordable homes...or very expensive 'apartments'?
Ed | 22.08.13 - 12:47 p.m. | #
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This one found its way to Berlin;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/isarsteve/2347583486/in/photolist-4zrYMm-4zrZHY-4zrZXy-9dn74Q/
Winsleigh | 22.08.13 - 1:17 p.m. | #
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@Winsleigh
I couldn't get past Yahoo logon which appeared for some strange reason but presumably it is the much photographed sign at Wittenbergplatz U-bahn station.
Pedantic of Purley | 22.08.13 - 2:04 p.m. | #
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To add to the St James's Park/ apostrophe confusion the railway station of the same name has no apostrophe according to National Rail but an apostrophe with no extra 's' on it's sign.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/SJP.aspx
http://www.exeweb.com/2012/05/29/the-things-you-need-to-know-st-james-park-exeter/#jp-carousel-638
Whiff | 22.08.13 - 2:39 p.m. | #
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'...on its sign.' surely?
Bob Lindsay-Smith | 22.08.13 - 10:02 p.m. | #
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Newcastle United's football ground is St. James's Park. Exeter City's football ground is St. James' Park. Both different yet correct. Vive la difference.
THC | 22.08.13 - 10:20 p.m. | #
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I've been travelling daily through Ealing Broadway station (with a break for University in the late '70s) from 1969 to 1997, and the solid roundels on Platforms 8 and 9 were always there; I do not recollect them every having been replaced by replicas. As far as I can tell, they are original.
Before the roundel, wasn't there... the diamond, Diamond Geezer?
Apostrophes...
I'm all for keeping it grammatically correct and vilify utterly the semi-literate community that drops apostrophes when they are needed or inserts them when they are not. As Sarah notes, the OUP guidelines are a good place for answers.
Note the ceramic station name at Regent's Park - no apostrophe, back in Edwardian England, where the miscreant should have received six of the best for such a slip-up!
http://jeziorki.blogspot.com/2007/12/staying-underground.html (towards bottom of this post)
Michael Dembinski | Homepage | 23.08.13 - 7:12 a.m. | #
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Bob Lindsay-Smith: touche!
THC: As an Exeter City fan I can tell you there is no consensus on what the club's ground should be called; the club website (mostly) has James', the sign outside the ground has James while many fans and much of the local media says James's.
whiff | 23.08.13 - 5:32 p.m. | #
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The roundel referred to in Berlin is Acton Town which is privately owned.
It's not usual to have to log-in to view Flickr.
winsleigh | 24.08.13 - 9:20 a.m. | #
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Some flickr users restrict access to their photos to selected people. That's why some photos are unviewable.
Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 24.08.13 - 10:05 a.m. | #
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@m dembinski
The diamond was used by the met before 1933, when it was still independant from the underground group
timbo | 27.08.13 - 9:15 p.m. | #
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The St Jame's Park error was made by Beck himself on his 1959 edition of the diagram.
PG | 01.09.13 - 6:02 p.m. | #
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I'm glad you described the ST. JAMES' PARK roundel as "beneath the stairs", as I thought I remembered it once being rather tucked away. It's now very conspicuous at the bottom of the staircase it was previously behind, literally in your face as you head for the exit. I'd guess the relocation was not accidental.
Andrew S | 06.09.13 - 1:06 p.m. | #
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I recall that the disused platform on the original Shoreditch station had triangular signs in green.
DannyR | Homepage | 12.03.18 - 9:04 a.m. | #
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