please empty your brain below
Has anyone else noticed the new style of compulsory style bus stop flag? I say style because I think all stops are now request stops irrespective of the roundel being on a red or white background. These on Bethnal Green road have a red roundel on a white background with the words Bus Stop across the bar compared to the plan red roundel of the predecessor. Underneath there is a plain red stripe where the words Bus Stop used to sit. Unfortunately it all feels a bit top heavy and like like something is missing. Perhaps the internal departs in TfL don't like any subsidiary using a plain roundel. I much prefer the flags they replaced.

| 19.08.14 - 8:20 a.m. | #

New bus stop flag: flickr.com/14907082571
Old bus stop flag: flickr.com/2722274642

diamond geezer | Homepage | 19.08.14 - 8:29 a.m. | #

The bus cranks in my office have just pointed out that the 27 terminates at Chalk Farm Morrisons.

Marc | 19.08.14 - 8:33 a.m. | #

Added that, thanks.

Bus destinations are a bit of a moveable feast. On my local 488, for example, the destination on the front of the bus is Bromley-by-Bow, but the announcement on board the bus is 488 to Bromley by Bow, Tesco.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 19.08.14 - 8:55 a.m. | #

Why more D's than A's???

David | 19.08.14 - 9:08 a.m. | #

Would I be right in guessing the long London bus route you didn't use was the 111?
(Heathrow to Kingston on the 285 or X26 is less than ten miles)

timbo | 19.08.14 - 9:20 a.m. | #

Recognising that things change all the time I would point out that the 219 doesn't have ASDA on its blinds or on Countdown.

The 173 terminates at Beckton Bus Station and doesn't mention ASDA. The same applies to the 366.

The 325 does terminate at East Beckton Sainsburys as does the 262 and Sainsburys is shown on the blinds.

I've double checked the above on photos and on Countdown.

PC | 19.08.14 - 9:22 a.m. | #

'coincidentally, I caught four of those over the weekend'

Hurrah, we can finally look forward to a week of posts on the 465.

I'm guessing it's the 246 you didn't catch, but being as I haven't looked at a list of borough tops, or have anything else to go on I'm probably wrong.

Lorenzo | 19.08.14 - 9:24 a.m. | #

You missed 295 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's, it says on the blind too.

Greg | 19.08.14 - 9:35 a.m. | #

I've updated the "supermarket destination" list, thanks. I may continue doing so all day.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 19.08.14 - 9:39 a.m. | #

The 391 terminates at Sands End / Sainsburys but only shows "Fulham Sands End" on its blinds / Countdown. Not sure what category that falls in.

You can add the 268 to the Sainsburys list as it terminates at the same stop as the 187 although I think buses show the "Finchley Road O2 centre" on their blinds / Countdown.

PC | 19.08.14 - 9:43 a.m. | #

On that note: isn't it sometimes annoying? For example, 27 says Chalk Farm on the blinds and in the announcement, so you would duly expect to arrive at the tube station. And then you end up in the middle of a car park, a long and miserable walk from the station and everything else, through the car park ramps.

Greg | 19.08.14 - 10:30 a.m. | #

@Lorenzo

How would DG get to Westerham Heights other than using the 246?

Anyone who has to use the 111 has my deepest sympathy

timbo | 19.08.14 - 10:34 a.m. | #

I've updated the "supermarket destination" list, thanks. I may continue doing so all day.

I think you may be in for a hard time. One can be so nit-picking. 166 normally terminates at Banstead (one bus an hour goes on to Epsom). The bus blind may say Banstead but the full name of the stop is Banstead, Marks & Spencer. I am sure there are other examples and things change. As someone pointed out it seems to be the complete opposite of the permanence of Underground names.

Pedantic of Purley | 19.08.14 - 10:40 a.m. | #

Ergh, the longest journey with the lairiest passengers-who would want to be a Night Bus driver?

HoosierSands | Homepage | 19.08.14 - 10:44 a.m. | #

That map for the H28 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/H28) made me think what the most 'inefficient' bus routes must be for travelling from end to end. There are plenty of routes that are clearly two routes stuck together, such as the 381 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/381) and the N253 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/n253).

Of course, none of these routes are intended for travelling end-to-end, although I do wonder how many hipsters get on the N253 each night in Bethnal Green intending to go to the Soho clubs near Tottenham Court Road...

Planner | 19.08.14 - 10:49 a.m. | #

The 325 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/325) is often quoted as London's most indirect bus.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 19.08.14 - 10:54 a.m. | #

My other pet hate is the lenghty and convoluted detours taken in order to call at "purpose built" bus stations, especially at shopping centres.

For example, has anyone counted how many times a bus goes around Hammersmith Broadway to exit and enter the station?

Greg | 19.08.14 - 10:56 a.m. | #

Saying R9 is twice as long in the opposite direction isn't really correct as it does a big loop!

From Tintagel Road it continues up Petten Grove, along Chelsfield Lane then returns to the station via Avalon Road...

Southern Heights | 19.08.14 - 12:39 p.m. | #

I have some data for the DLR from 2010-2011, which has total figures almost double those seen here. I don't have any knowledge of how I came about this 2010 data as it was some time ago, so it might be completely wrong, but can anyone suggest what's going on? Are these 2013 figures just boardings, or just alightings? Why don't TFL just release data on the DLR & Tramlink in the same way they do for the tube?

BruceTenmile | 19.08.14 - 2:50 p.m. | #

'Ten other nightbuses beat everything in the next list.'

Please explain!

nLW | 19.08.14 - 3:02 p.m. | #

Other circuitous bus routes no-one would use from end to end
39 Putney Bridge to Clapham Junction via Southfields
111 (Heathrow to Kingston, in a big Z-shape), crossing the 285 and X26 at right angles about half way along
371 (Richmond to Kingston the long way round - the 65 crosses it twice)
521 - Waterloo to London Bridge via Holborn

Hisorically the 45 from South Kensington to Kings Cross via Brixton must have been a contender - the 14, 30 and 73 were all more direct.

timbo | 19.08.14 - 3:10 p.m. | #

The link to the possibly incorrect 2010-11 data is https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/107829/response/268523/attach/4/DLR%20Station%20Data.pdf

BruceTenmile | 19.08.14 - 3:13 p.m. | #

Oh, and of course any bus from Waterloo to the City - all four (4, 26, 76, 172) take the long dogleg over Waterloo Bridge to get stuck in the jams on Fleet Street, instead of taking the direct route via Stamford Street and Blackfriars Bridge.

@nLW
Presumably DG means that there are another ten N-routes between 16.8 and 20.9 miles long, so the 465, as the longest non-letter route, is the 14th longest route, and second longest day route.

timbo | 19.08.14 - 3:16 p.m. | #

I often use the 111, at various parts of its route. Could be Heston or Hampton ends. Not too unpleasant, a double decker and frequent service which runs all night.
I have done Richmond to Kingston the long way, some people like riding buses.
Going back in the past I have traveled on the 37 from Hounslow to Peckham, that was a long ride. Now split up.
I still remember a long route the 27 Archway to Teddington station, and extended through Bushey Park on Sundays to Hampton Court Palace (27A)

John | 19.08.14 - 3:44 p.m. | #

My local circuitous route is the H13 (normally Ruislip Lido - Northwood Hills (S. Vincent's Medical Cemtre or whatever it's called now). The terminals are about 20 minutes or so walk apart through Park Wood (if you know your way!).

The H13's predecessor was the independent 98B service, which had a roundabout route from Pinner to Rayners Lane. On the odd occasion I used it to get home from Ruislip, I could get off in Pinner and be home in North Harrow before the bus came past.

Steve Bird | 19.08.14 - 4:27 p.m. | #

I must be tired. I read subtext at 3 longest...as ten other nightmares!!!

B | 19.08.14 - 4:49 p.m. | #

While we on the subject of bus related stats...I calculate very nearly one red TfL bus for every two TfL bus stops...I'm certain "timbo" will correct me if not :)

Ed | 19.08.14 - 5:09 p.m. | #

@Timbo - thanks, got it now.

NLW | 19.08.14 - 7:13 p.m. | #

Back in the 60s the 73 route ran from Tottenham to Richmond, which I think would be longer than any of you "non-lettered" routes today.

Jim Webber | 19.08.14 - 7:36 p.m. | #

Another question is the longest route a single driver tackles - for instance the X26 I catch from Heathrow to Croydon always seems to have a driver change at Kingston Cromwell Bus station.

Nicks | 19.08.14 - 8:14 p.m. | #

Another question could be which bridge has the most bus routes crossing it and which has the least? Are there any routes which cross two different bridges?

E | 19.08.14 - 9:30 p.m. | #

@E
Couldn't resist (day buses only, and omitting non-vehicular crossings such as the Millennium Bridge)

According to the London Bus map:
Woolwich Ferry - 0
Blackwall Tunnel - 1
Rotherhithe Tunnel - 0
Tower - 2
London - 11
Southwark - 1
Blackfriars - 3
Waterloo - 17
Westminster - 6
Lambeth - 3
Vauxhall - 7
Chelsea - 3
Albert - 0
Battersea - 5
Wandsworth - 3
Putney normally 6 but currently zero
Hammersmith - 6
Chiswick - 1
Kew - 2
Twickenham - 0
Richmond - 6 (plus one shopmobility route)
Kingston - 7 (plus 3 non-TfL routes)
Hampton Court - 2 (plus the same three non-TfL routes)

The 521 crosses London and Waterloo Bridges, the 33 crosses Hammersmith and Richmond Bridges, and the R68 crosses Richmond and Hampton Court Bridges.

The old 218 crossed Kingston, Hampton Court and Staines Bridges, but now it is Surrey-sponsored route 461, so no London bus crosses the Thames upstream of Hampton Court Bridge (which is also the furthest-upstream bridge to be wholly or partly within the GLA area)

So Waterloo is the clear winner, Albert and Twickenham have the least, and three TfL routes and three non-TfL routes cross the river in London twice (including the 461).

timbo | 19.08.14 - 9:53 p.m. | #

@ Timbo - you have missed the RV1 from Tower Bridge and possibly Waterloo Bridge. Tower has the 42, 78 and RV1 crossing it so a total of 3. The RV1 is also a dual bridge crosser and relatively close together like the 521.

PC | 19.08.14 - 10:32 p.m. | #

Wow! Thanks timbo

E | 19.08.14 - 10:37 p.m. | #

@PC
Oops - so I did: I counted it on Waterloo but not Tower

Waterloo's total also includes the very rare X68

timbo | 20.08.14 - 7:50 a.m. | #

Update
You didn't say it had to be a bridge over the Thames - the one carrying Hammersmith Broadway across the District Line also has 17 routes:
9, 10, 27, 33, 72, 190, 209, 211, 220, 266, 267, 283, 295, 391, 419, 485, H91.

The roads with the most routes of all seem to be London Road, Elephant & Castle with 21,
1, 12, 45, 53, 63, 68, 100, 148, 155, 168, 171, 172, 176, 188, 344, 360, 363, 453, 468, C10, X68

and Cromwell Road in Kingston, a short stretch of which has 22
57, 65, 71, 85, 111, 131, 213, 216, 281, 285, 371, 406, 411, 418, 465, 481, K1, K2, K3, K4, K5, X26

Can anyone beat that?

timbo | 20.08.14 - 11:05 a.m. | #

@timbo

You may be interested in this data visualisation of London's 114k daily bus trips!

Admittedly it doesn't seem to be limited to TfL buses and seems to include commuter coaches. But it does confirm your statistic about Waterloo Bridge.

http://mappinglondon.co.uk/2012/mapped-every-bus-trip-in-london/

Planner | 21.08.14 - 11:08 a.m. | #

@Planner
Interesting: of course that shows journeys, not routes, is weighted towards high-frequencty routes.

Actually (and obviously when you think about it) the Aldwych/Strand one way system has all 17 routes across Waterloo Bridge PLUS all ten routes along the Strand from the Charing Cross direction - a total of 27 routes (26 on the western half of the Aldwych as the 521 dives underneath through the old tram tunnel). Waterloo Bridge shows up as a thicker line because it has two-way traffic.

timbo | 21.08.14 - 9:37 p.m. | #











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