please empty your brain below
There is also the concept of Smart Appliances where the meter can switch of appliances at times of high demand.
Don't believe the hype about how they can save you money. They don't, they measure consunmption. So unless you cut consumption you won't pay any less. You can already get in home meters that show your usage without a smart meters, if that is something that bothers you.
Lastly of course they allow the supplier to remotely cut you off if they think you have not paid. That might sound good (people can't get free energy and refuse to pay). But if you've ever had the "pleasure" of being an NPower customer you might well of had the same expeirence as me, that they are unable to generate a correct bill, so generate an incorrect one and take the money from your account anyway. (It happened to me and I had to take them to the Omudsman and cancel the direct debit until they could sort it - and the Ombusdman agreed with me and awarded me compensation). That option goes if the supplier can simply cut you off if you haven't paid because the bill they have generated is inaccurate. At one point I recall that because my actual meter reading was lower than their estimate they produced a bill that assumed I had used so much energy the meter had gone round to 99999 and back to the value they had (rather than a slightly lower reading than their own estimate).
The bigger problem with smart meters, though, is the cost of the project. Like any other government IT scheme, the costs have spiralled. The government would probably have been better spending the money on other projects to reduce carbon emissions (& energy waste)
Worth pointing out that a smart meter can be programmed to measure apparent power (and charge you more) whereas existing meters can only measure real power (so can't).
Bigclive has dismantled one recently on his YouTube channel.
[video]
First they do not have to pay someone to read the meter (although in my case I do this myself and email the reading to them), secondly they can at some stage vary your tariff (variable tariff) and make you pay more when demand is high on the grid, thirdly they have a record of your electricity/gas usage during each day which can be used to know know about your lifesyle and be used for targeted advertising and fourthly some "smart" meters have caused interference on AM radios.
There are more reasons to not want one which others will no doubt mention.
Fortunately on their last telephone call they told me that because my meters are outside my premises and partially below ground they were not suitable for changing. (Possible by being partly in the ground the radio signal sent to them may not get out very well). However since then I still get letters asking me to change! which I ignore.
If I did get a "smart" meter forced upon me I would put a metal screen around it so no signal got back to the supplier!
If I want to use electricity/gas I do so and I know what items use a lot.
I guess the consumer is paying for all these new unnecessary meters and the advertising for them.
I had one installed a couple of years ago. When it worked it was very useful but the first thing that went wrong was the electricity meter no longer got a signal from the gas meter. This coincided with a software upgrade but EDF energy insist the software upgrade was not the cause. Then, for absolutely no apparent reason, the display tablet stopped functioning. I really miss it as it was useful. So now I still have to send in my gas readings (which they don't believe because I use no gas in summer) and there is no facility to only send the gas reading so I have to send the electricity reading as well despite the fact they know it.
EDF had admitted they can't fix any of this and advise me to wait for SMETS 2!
The whole thing is a massive cock-up. The government were talked into allowing the end-user electricity suppliers to be in charge of all this rather than have the power networks do it. The latter would have been much more logical and they could have converted all those willing one road a time much more efficiently. They would also be supplier neutral.
Jon Combe is correct that all they do is measure consumption but that can be very useful and, in the right circumstances, save you a lot of money. In summer our usage is very low because we take care to only put things like the washing machine on when we are generating enough power from the solar panels.
I think the bit about it increasing bills is nonsense. What is expensive is "peaker" plants that cater for peaks of electricity. If we can persuade people to cut unnecessary consumption in the peaks (preferably automatically with appropriate settings) then the country and consumers will save and we won't need to build any nuclear reactors after Hinkley C. Already EDF energy have offered me a substantial discount for having a battery so I can charge it using solar panels or cheap electricity and sell it back at peak times. Unfortunately the economics still don't stack up - yet.
GCHQ was quickly on the hacking issue. That is one reason why SMETS2 is much better. If your haven't got a wireless signal things are much harder to hack.
John,
If you had a SMETS2 meter, the signal goes back via the electricity wires. So surrounding it with metal will achieve nothing.
I fear the smart meter saga is going to be the technological equivalent of the MMR scare.
Both stints ended after delivering unpalatable conclusions on cost, reliability, installation safety and timescales to my clients.
I don't have a Smart Meter.
Daftest thing though was that we already had smart meters installed. They were there when we moved in, but acting in "dumb" mode. They mysteriously sprung into life when we changed supplier.
Dont worry too much about jobs though. Wetill get people coming to read the meter though. Presumably to check the meters are working correctly.
https://www.euractiv.com/...
Whenever a pointless expensive shambles is created by the government for no apparent reason, look for the EU directive (cf creation of BT Openreach, Railtrack, etc. Etc.)
So I'm also in the refusnik camp, no way am I getting one.
Sorry max you are wrong - in relation to Railtrack at any rate. Don't confuse cause and effect. Britain separated track from running trains and the EU liked the idea so adopted it. In makes more sense for land-locked countries than it does for island countries.
Also wrong in the case of BT Openreach. BT privatised by Margaret Thatcher. Openreach was an Ofcom solution to overcome the problem of BT taking advantage of its monopoly position and its charges to other service providers for the cable network. Ofcom keeps threatening to demand Openreach is a totally independent company if BT abuse its position.
I can understand the upgrade (SMETS1 to SMETS2) might be a slow process. It is not just the meter. You also need the network and computers to support it to be able to handle all the data.
I've been on IT projects in the energy industry for nearly two decades. I'm not sure one project has ever delivered on time or on budget. I'm not sure anyone else's have, either. Even in that context, though, smart meters seem like a mess.
I too keep getting the message that my supplier wants me to have one installed, and ignoring it because of the various issues which people experience and because I'm quite happy to monitor my usage by reading my meters every 10 days. When my Economy 7 meter started to malfunction last year, SSE replaced it promptly; I had expected to get a smart meter, but the installer said they were only being supplied as part of a rollout programme - and he added that he didn't recommend them as they served no useful purpose for customers or suppliers!
I switched to Yorkshire Energy last month, and I await any suggestion from them that I should have a smart meter.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/...
Oh yes, and the requirement for all our personal houses to become energy rated, that came from the EU too
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/...
Directive 91/440/EEC of 29 July 1991 on the development of the Community railways requires that Member States grant rail companies independence from government and introduce commercial management techniques; and separate the management of infrastructure from transport management. The Directive was originally implemented in the UK by the Railways Regulations 1992 (SI 1992/3060), later replaced by the Railways Regulations 1998 (SI 1998/1340) and now in force via the Railways Infrastructure (Access and Management) Regulations 2005 (SI 2005/3049).
Max Roberts,
Point taken but the idea of a separate rail track company was in the minds of Convservative privateers long before the EU picked up on it in a serious way.
Also the mess seen in the UK with telecoms was apparent before the EU brought in telecoms directives so one has to ask: what prompted these directives?
As there are clearly lots of very informed people here, can anyone please point me to any official guidance on the accuarcy (or otherwise) of this assertion (I've been unable to find anything)?
Ultimately whilst they're on your property, they're not your property. I wouldn't expect to get a say.
The theory behind a smart meter is good from an electricity company's point of view and it allows greater flexibility for supplying electricity for those who also have off-peak tariffs. I am still on a long defunct white meter fixed 9-hour off-peak tariff (22:30 - 07:30) and it would be useful to have some of the off-peak allowance to be used for a boost during the day. However, having a fixed time period means that I know when to use equipment at the cheap rate and can set it up on timer (immersion every night for a tank of hot water, washing machine, tumble drier etc. as required)
I only use gas for cooking. I monitor my electricity use with an Owl meter (I use the Owl + USB which also connects to the PC). The meter is a very convenient way of seeing what electricity is being used, both in real time and historical.
Or when your meter comes to the end of its life (see my comment just above). Which might be sooner than you'd like...
I've also been told recently that off-peak tariffs (E7, E10, white meter) will be ending in the next few years: which fits in with comments above about time of usage charging by those more informed on this subject.
But, the government allowed sale of many of our electricity companies and generation facilities to non-UK companies...
It is policy to replace with Smart. However for many years, the electricity companies have been unable to keep up with routine replacement of low-cost 'dumb' meters, never mind the installation of Smart Meters.
Apart from the indirect and significant cost of the UK's approach, customers will need to get used to meter replacement because your expensive Smart Meter will be less reliable.
This is how the installation worked...
The supplier notifies a time for installation. An hour before that time they phone to say they cannot come.
A year later another time is arranged. An engineer arrives, takes a look at the ancient meter box and announces he has never seen one of those before. After half an hour sending photos of it to his support team he decides he cannot do anything.
Some weeks later, the network provider (a different company) makes an apppointment, several engineers duly arrive and say the electricity supplier has asked them to reconfigure some wiring. I tell them they are supposed to be replacing the box, so the supervisor looks at it and announces he hasn't seen one of those for about thirty years. They can replace it but are not equipped to do it today.
Several weeks later they return, replace the box and reinstall the old meter because changing it is not their responsibility.
Several weeks later the electricity supplier installs a smart meter.
I think there could be a case for a claim of false advertising on the part of the smart meter campaign. They absolutely cannot save you money. You pay for the electricity you use. Even if you don’t bother supplying readings and spend years being billed using estimated readings; at the point you switch supplier, or move, out a final actual reading tallies up with your first reading and the charges are corrected. Therefore in your time with that supplier you have paid for what you have used.
Whether you make such a resolution, of course, and whether you keep to it, are two big unknowns.
I insisted I didn't want a smart meter. I was told the company I was with didn't do them so mine is now just a digital one.
It could still be a smart one in dumb mode for all I know, but it is no longer running backwards (boo!) and I still need to give monthly readings.
" They absolutely cannot save you money."
They can, in the same way that having a speedometer in your car can save you from paying a speeding fine.
Regarding electricity usage, my main loads are the 'fridge freezer in the summer, and the boiler in the winter. These can't be "turned off" just to save leccy. I refuse a meter at each request.
Stupidly I do have a smart electricity meter. I had the "oh that's a very old set up" discussion when the chap turned up but he managed to install the meter. All that's happened is that my electric bill has soared despite nothing changing in my use of appliances etc. I'd already got very used to walking round my flat in the dark to avoid switching lights on. I suspect I will have to go round switching more and more things off.
The fancy digital usage display just made me neurotic about using the kettle or oven so I unplugged it. If I need to use the oven then I have to use it! A display unit going bezerk in the background is no help.
I've made zero effort to get a smart gas meter as I don't want a 70% increase in my gas bill. Ditto for a water meter - I don't want to worry about running water to wash the dishes or to have a shower.
I did the calculations and Smart Metering itself will require the entire output from a small power station.
Anyone know how frequently this and what it costs?
The energy companies can reasonably say that if use through the day can be smoothed by variable tariffs then the overall cost of supply can be reduced, but I will believe lower prices when I see them.
What cannot be in doubt is that variable tariffs may lead to bad changes in consumer behaviour. When the local fire service fitted me some alarms a few weeks back, the guys were mighty impressed when I told them I never ran the drier when I was not in the house, and awake. Cheap night time tariffs leading to the heavy machinery running when asleep is not sensible.
Several Secretaries of State have confirmed that smart meters won't be compulsory, the most recent being Greg Clark in October 2017. Ofgem also say that they aren’t compulsory and that you can choose not to have one.
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However, although the above posters have raised many valid objections, no-one has fully grasped why this massively expensive white elephant project is still being rolled out with ever increasing desperation. Instead of investing in sufficient generating capacity to ensure continuity of supply at peak times when it's dark and cold, corners have been cut to boost profits. Consumers will be forced to shift demand to inconvenient times; anyone for Sunday Roast at 2am, washing machine at 3am, tumble drier at 4am?
Stage 1 will be Time of Day tariffs that will make electricity eye-wateringly expensive at times when you want to use it most. But when ToD fails to reduce demand sufficiently, Stage 2 will kick in: the (conveniently unpublicised) Kill Switch in your Smart Meter will be triggered remotely to give you your very own personal power cut. You WILL comply !
The final trick will be to offer an Uninterruptable Tariff: the Kill Switch won't be used to shed your load. Your supply will be guaranteed unless there's a planned outage, an area wide power cut, or a fault. Relax and don't worry, when you switch on an appliance some poor person somewhere will be disconnected just for you ! All you'll have to do is pay the (ever increasing) premium...
Smart People have Dumb Meters. Dumb People have Smart Meters.
In 2016, Ofgem scrapped the requirement to inspect meters every two years.
"Presumably smart meters have to be checked/ calibrated periodically to ensure they are accurate, or the local weights and measures people might get interested."
Surely dumb meters have to comply with weights and measures too.
I do though have an obsolete smart water meter installed as part of a trial (for which I was rewarded). When the trial ended I was told it had to be removed; after several hours swearing at it the engineer said it could stay.
Put me in Camp Swivel-Eye on all things "smart" too. Happy to be there!
"In the UK the then Conservative Government decided to
separate track and trains via privatisation, putting both into the private sector; no other EU
country took this route." (p3)
So the creation of Railtrack was a UK choice, not an EU directive.
History will not look kindly on the smart meter rollout process, I suspect, but will be glad that it got there. Eventually.
However, during the phone conversation to actually confirm an appointment, I was informed of the option to have the existing unit replaced with a non-Smart one, which was what I chose.
I did wonder if they'd make any further attempts at talking me round (maybe even surreptitiously fit a Smart one anyway) but these fears turned out to be unfounded: the new meter installed was non-Smart, as agreed, and there have been few if any marketing mailshots since.
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