dg comments

please empty your brain below

I’m a great fan of the Route Finder box for quick confirmation of the bus stops to use. I’m already lamenting its passing.

Roger French | Homepage | 19.06.19 - 7:08 a.m. | #

Instructions on a map - that is a new one for me. Do people these days really not know how bus maps work? Better to just make it so intuitive (like an iPhone) that no instructions are necessary, as the user can just work it out for themselves. But perhaps this is the influence of widespread mapping and route finding software, which does the hard work for you.

Andrew | 19.06.19 - 7:39 a.m. | #

I wonder what happened to the idea of adding key connecting routes to the maps.

gazebo | 19.06.19 - 7:49 a.m. | #

I’m not a fan of the redesign. Loss of information. And it’s poorly executed too - why are there so many dots which aren’t labeled?

It’s better than those awful simplified ones though, where Ilford is apparently both north and south of Romford.

GreenKitten | 19.06.19 - 8:01 a.m. | #

The Romford map isn't just topographically wrong, it topologically wrong. Look at all those "Upminster" stations spread around the map, top and bottom. Imagine a Tube Map with three different "Oxford Circus" stations unconnected, in different parts of the map.

Many times I offer my services to TfL (for example, a research project with spider maps a few years ago), I get back "we do all our research in-house, thanks but no-thanks". The fact that they even needed to trial the Romford map suggests that their in-house team might need some outside help.

Max Roberts | 19.06.19 - 8:01 a.m. | #

The oddest and worst thing about the many bad things about the Romford map is that the routes on the top half are mostly (the 252 being an interloper) arranged in more or less the geographical east-west sequence in which their destinations lie. Whereas it looks as though no attempt to do this has been made in the bottom half.

Can't say I'm convinced by the new maps though, especially not the abolition of the key list of routes with stops.

A pity that than organisation that used to have a good reputation for presenting complex information clearly is throwing that away so quickly and so comprehensively.

Maybe still not as bad as the thankfully short-lived "bubble maps" (in other regards more or less traditional geographical bus maps, with big circles at every road junction showing which routes served those intersections, the numbers of routes being given according to a barely comprehensible colour code, rather than routes being labelled by the roads themselves) in vogue in the late 80s, but still not good.

Dominic H | 19.06.19 - 8:22 a.m. | #

Why have they got to change everything. Just people justifying their jobs. I worked in industry for 33 years and know change for change sake to keep people in jobs. In a few years they'll change again - for what?

Fred | 19.06.19 - 8:56 a.m. | #

Notwithstanding the information loss and topographical anomalies that have been highlighted.. from a purely design perspective I think the new maps are generally clearer to the eye than those they have replaced.

Frank F | 19.06.19 - 9:07 a.m. | #

I've never got on with spider maps. I find the explosion of criss-crossing colours incomprehensible. I think I experience the same mild panic other people are said to get if they are confronted with a traditional map.

With the Hopper fare now TfL's excuse for everything, maps will need to show the possibilities for interchange. There was an experiment in the 1980s nicked the 'bubblegraph' where routes were shown in a circle where they intersected. Maybe its time has finally arrived.

Ned | 19.06.19 - 9:39 a.m. | #

I came across the new-style spider maps by chance on the TfL website yesterday. I like the route numbers alongside the route, and on that occasion I could find all the other information I needed as easily as with the old maps. Whether the new maps will reveal drawbacks over time remains to be seen.

Jonathan Wadman | 19.06.19 - 9:40 a.m. | #

I like the numbers alongside the route, and the stop letters listed in the box alongside the destination.

But the destination needs to be enhanced by adding in the other places mentioned in the index, so the 25 would need to include Stratford, for example (but probably not Bus Stop M).

Intriguing that one stop on King Edward Street has no identity, leading the 100 towards Shadwell to be described as leaving "from stops SV, Unlettered".

Man of Kent | 19.06.19 - 10:12 a.m. | #

Thanks for the careful and balanced study. Time will tell, but including transient information about buses whose route has recently changed seems quite risky, unless there are detailed plans, and a budget, to replace them in a few months time.

Malcolm | 19.06.19 - 10:33 a.m. | #

The concentration on ultimate destination only (also seen on the front of buses now) does lead to some odd anomalies. Signs at Waterloo directing people to the "26 towards Hackney" are not very helpful for the much larger number of people who might find it a useful way of getting to the City. On the Spider Map you show for St Pauls, it would seem that only the No 8 goes to Bow, and only the 388 to Stratford, whereas in fact the 25 (shown as going to Ilford) is a more direct route to both destinations. Yes, the Central Line is quicker, but the Spider Maps are of particular importance when the preferred route is not available for some reason, and displaced passengers need information on alternatives.

timbo | 19.06.19 - 10:58 a.m. | #

A glaring omission of the new format is the complete lack of information as to where to catch a bus that terminates within the central box.

Looking at the Trafalgar Square map, for example, that affects routes 3, 29 and 91.

Granted buses won't generally have far to run within the box, but it's still useful information for some people.

Barry S | 19.06.19 - 11:38 a.m. | #

On balance, I think I prefer the bus stops having been moved to the edges of the diagram. Personally I've always considered the previous approach to be an example of poor design. I appreciate that for those familiar with the network, who know which bus they want but not where the appropriate bus stop may be when in an unfamiliar location this change is irritating, but for those using the spider map to actually plan a journey the new design is arguably more intuitive.

Equally, I feel the addition of a 'How To Use' box is nothing short of an improvement. Yes, it isn't difficult to work out. No, it's not there because the new design is more difficult. It's there because it's the right thing to do and not having one was, again, poor design.

I am most impressed however with the change in emphasis. As use of the bus network moves increasingly away from bus-only journeys towards mixed-mode travel, in large part driven by Oyster (and subsequent technologies), two and a half miles on a single bus is a heck of a distance for the casual user. That is not to belittle those (many) regular users who may wish to stick to bus-only for cost reasons, but this demographic likely knows where they're going before they ever reach the spider map at the bus stop.

Michael T | 19.06.19 - 11:40 a.m. | #

i like the new maps - colourful and map like !

i suspect the user's like/dislike will be partly driven by how spatially orientated they are. the new maps do require more spatial awareness.

ADS | Homepage | 19.06.19 - 11:47 a.m. | #

As someone who relatively frequently takes long and unplanned bus only journeys, has no smartphone, and frequently needs to know the exact names of minor stops, these changes seem specifically created to irritate me... I can tell my copy of the commercial Greater London bus map is going to be extremely battered through extensive emergency usage.

The loss of the Route Finder box is also a little annoying as it's useful when you're attempting to find the best place to specifically catch one of two buses along completely different routes (e.g. travelling from Camden to Great Portland Street via whichever of the 27 and 88 comes first), but I'll learn to live with it, I'm sure.

Time will tell how people who aren't transport enthusiasts will react to this.

Re: 1980s bubble maps (amusing to see two comments, one praising them and one condemning them) - I've never had to use them, but I've seen them in old guidebooks and they're truly horrifying to try and follow.

Re: Romford style maps
kill them with fire

@Barry S
The old spider maps didn't have details of bus stops for buses terminating within the area either, which wasn't ideal if your intention was to wait and greet someone at the bus stop. At least it's not a regression.

the orange one | 19.06.19 - 1:00 p.m. | #

I can see the point in trying to make them easier to read, but feel that too much information is lost.

The unnamed stops is really unhelpful, to the point of being silly. How would you know where you want to get off it it's before the first named stop? It's useful to know what to listen out for on the announcements.

I would improve the maps by showing all the routes at least as far as wherever any criss-cross each other, and then cut them with the arrow to the destination. At least it would give a sense of the network links and parallel routes again.

On checking a mix of old and new in areas I go, I find the old ones more useful. Thumbs down.

Finally, I noticed the additional 'change here' announcements over the weekend, and give it a big thumbs-up. A downside is that there is more to keep track of and change, whenever routes are tinkered with again, so they could get out of date.

NIckW | 19.06.19 - 2:02 p.m. | #

But I want to complain that theres no all route printed map because <snip>

Andrew Jarman | 19.06.19 - 2:30 p.m. | #

Many bus stops (eg former eastbound route 242, Cheapside) still show the old route... I appreciate a lot of bus stops had to be changed...

Joel | 19.06.19 - 3:00 p.m. | #

I thought I'd check and see if the Hammersmith Bridge related spider maps had been changed. Foolish to think they might have been.

ap | 19.06.19 - 7:50 p.m. | #

The best solution would be some sort of interactive 'Citymapper' style touchscreen where you say where you want to go and it tells you how to get there directly. Would be much simpler as it wouldn't need to show all the additional routes/stops that aren't relevant. Would also function as a countdown display to show when the next bus is coming and what the expected journey time would be (so you could make different plans if there is traffic etc).
So yes, essentially Citymapper but at fixed locations rather than on a phone (it would only have to do buses and maybe tube/rail).

Adrian | 19.06.19 - 9:07 p.m. | #

London has nineteen thousand bus stops and twelve thousand bus shelters.

The 'best' solution is still paper-based.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 19.06.19 - 9:12 p.m. | #

Taking my car for a service at Gallows Corner 2 weeks ago, and having to travel back to Romford station, I would have totally missed the 496 that charges off to the south east from Romford station on this spider map.

scrumpy | 19.06.19 - 11:06 p.m. | #

Whoever approved the straightened out diagrams should be hung, drawn, and quartered - they are a capital crime committed on passenger information.

straphan | 25.06.19 - 2:18 p.m. | #

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