please empty your brain below
Classic software engineer nitpicking. I was one, and have done my fair share in the past, but its really only useful when converting a spec into code, not for informing the public.

John B | 09.08.19 - 7:31 a.m. | #

It will never "be like every other normal London bus" except for boarding at the front.
It will continue to have no rear window upstairs, low ceiling, small windows, etc. Thank goodness the current Mayor ordered no more.
I also think it looks ugly with it curved back.

John | 09.08.19 - 7:34 a.m. | #

I like to imagine that TfL have a team of roving photographers (and extras!) who are travelling around London taking stock footage of each route. Just in case TfL needs to issue a press release.

Dan | 09.08.19 - 7:34 a.m. | #

I have always admired the look and the concept of these buses - elegant and fast to load / unload (coming from a provincial city where boarding a bus seems to take an eternity). Then I traveled on one on a hot day in July and never want to do so again. What a disappointment.

David H | 09.08.19 - 7:38 a.m. | #

Do they know there is widespread fare evasion, or do they assume there is widespread fare evasion?, for example Freedom/Staff/'whatever the one for children is called' Pass holders may not be bothering to touch in.

Still Anon | 09.08.19 - 7:58 a.m. | #

In some respects, it doesn't matter why TfL are doing this. It simply brings these stupid buses in line with any other double decker and consistency is good for all. Easier for everyone to get off if there is a dedicated door.

But changing habits is never easy.

As for the buses, well they were doomed from the start. London I am sure, will barely notice when they finally start getting withdrawn.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 8:10 a.m. | #

They do have lightning acceleration and good brakes as this morning's maniacal/suicidal bus driver demonstrated....

Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 09.08.19 - 8:19 a.m. | #

This morning's tweet from @TfLBusAlerts shows the queue at Bus Stop J from a different angle. That must have been quite a photo session.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 8:32 a.m. | #

Boarding at multiple doors is surely one of the great advantages of these buses (which also suits the layout, with two staircases), and presumably has a measurable impact on reducing time spent boarding.

It's also pretty much the normal practice on much of the continent (Italy and Hungary, and anywhere post-Soviet, certainly).

Abolishing it is an extremely retrograde step on TfL's part. I wonder how the rate of fate evasion compared with the bendy-buses they replaced?

I do think I'm most regards they are great and special buses: setting them.up.to be used liked conventional double deckers negates the more considered and unique aspects of their design. Bad move, TfL.

Dominic H | 09.08.19 - 8:52 a.m. | #

I'm pretty sure no mum or dad will ever park up the pushchair with a baby in it, leaving it unattended while they push against the flow of passengers just to tap in.

JJ | 09.08.19 - 9:01 a.m. | #

I like the way the people in the queue at Stop J are actually queueing in a straight line rather than the scrum that is the reality of bus stop queues these days.

MKIan | 09.08.19 - 9:03 a.m. | #

JJ - that’s exactly what thousands people do every day on existing London bus routes. It’s hardly unattended when you are less than 3m from it.

Flare | 09.08.19 - 9:09 a.m. | #

So leaving when you choose, without paying, is not so easy after all.

I hear the person who came up with the idea has a new job now….......

Timbo | 09.08.19 - 9:15 a.m. | #

I am confused.

Are passengers not allowed to enter the bus via middle and back doors only on the 8 bus, or is this now a general prohibition?

On my much-used 48, there is a considerable amount of fare dodging also, and this will, I'm sure be replicated on many routes, including those in more affluent areas than mine.

So I imagine this will change be 'rolled out' across London, and thus hasten the demise of this poorly-designed Boris cock-up.

Brian | 09.08.19 - 9:24 a.m. | #

buses.

east london.

it will never end.

bert | 09.08.19 - 9:27 a.m. | #

I once asked one of those people who stood at the open door at the back of the bus if they were there to stop people jumping on or off the bus at any time. They said no - so I was mystified as to why they were there.

Cornish Monkey | 09.08.19 - 9:35 a.m. | #

The money that has been wasted on these vehicles!

Peter | 09.08.19 - 9:48 a.m. | #

I only needed to look at the passengers queuing nicely in a pencil-straight line to know that the picture in the tweet had been staged.
Round here it's more of a rugby scrum!

Cornish Cockney | 09.08.19 - 9:51 a.m. | #

How does TfL organise its revenue protection function these days? The only time I have been checked recently was on an offpeak outbound 53 somewhere along the Old Kent Road, when my ENCTS pass was checked by a guy not in a recognisable uniform. He then sat down in the otherwise unoccupied upper deck.

By contrast, on a trip from Walsall on West Midlands 529, the bus stopped between stops on the road into Wolverhampton and 4 men in hi-viz jackets boarded. The driver closed the doors and the men in pairs (2 up, 2 down) checked the tickets and passes of every passenger. The doors were then opened and they got off, together with one man who had failed to produce a valid pass or ticket, and the bus drove off. Apart from the delay of 5 minutes (during which the bus was overtaken by another 529) I was impressed by the experience.

Ian | 09.08.19 - 9:58 a.m. | #

This is going to be interesting when it rolls out to all New Routemaster routes in due course.

At present, the driver can’t select which doors to open - the button in the cab opens all three together. The driver can close individual doors because there are three buttons to enable this.

Sometimes you might have noticed that as soon as the doors start to open, the centre or rear doors seem to bang shut. This is because the shrewd driver has pressed the relevant ‘close’ button as soon as the ‘open’ button has been pressed. Maybe this will be the way forward. Until the buttons break.

This bus is ready to depart...

Rob Healy | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 10:18 a.m. | #

Funny how the TFL of Khan say three-door boarding (on Borisbuses) causes fare evasion but the TFL of Livingstone said it was negligible (on bendies).

Kim | 09.08.19 - 10:27 a.m. | #

The door control buttons on NBfL are being changed to allow door opening selection.

Kim | 09.08.19 - 10:28 a.m. | #

there is no "aircon" noise on these buses...as they don't have a/c. they have a "air-cooling system" that is useless once temps pass 25c(not uncommon in central London...and never mind 30c or 35c or the potential 40c of years to come) hence the (costly) installment of opening windows. having a/c would have meant compressors and such-like, adding weight (to a already heavy bus) and would have taken it over to requiring an additional axle.

LDN | 09.08.19 - 10:33 a.m. | #

I have seen people not touching in on these buses. They are a dodger's paradise. But something that wasn't mentioned in all the hoo hah about the quickness of loading through three entrances was that these are exits! I have seen and been caught up in scenes reminiscent of those near tube doors. Thank goodness someone has thought of the bright idea of having seperate entrances and exits. I wonder if they earned a bonus for that? 😳😳

Jo W | 09.08.19 - 10:34 a.m. | #

I have been eagerly awaiting the first "actually I think you'll find it's not aircon" comment since 7am. Thank you for delivering.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 10:37 a.m. | #

It is all about designing a bus to be operated by two staff then removing one of them. Retiring the original routemasters took away one of London's great tourist attractions, but similarly the bendies were exported to Malta to ruin their iconic fleet of wonderful vintage buses.

kev | 09.08.19 - 11:04 a.m. | #

Boris Buses now have air con? The original did not and there were many complaints. I understand the constraints of The Tube and fitting aircon to trains, but there is no reason why all of London's buses shouldn't have air con.

In Australia we don't have double deck buses and I don't think they are very good. With recent England experience, young and fit people congregate at the lower level leaving no seats for older people.

Fare taking by bus drivers is absurd in this day and age, and how it slows down the service. Also one door on buses at the front for loading and unloading is ridiculous.

We caught a bus near Moorgate Station and it had a front and centre doors and Oyster readers at both doors.

Andrew | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 11:45 a.m. | #

The average age of a London bus is about 6.5 years, and 93% of double-deckers are less than ten. The oldest Borismasters are already eight years old. There is hope.
tfl.gov.uk/fleet-audit-31-march-2019.pdf

(If you include the real Routemasters, the average age of the fleet is about three weeks older - all those used on the 15H are between 55 and 59 years old)

timbo | 09.08.19 - 11:52 a.m. | #

Timbo - thing is, most of London's buses can be sold to operators outside the capital. Alternatively large bus groups can transfer them to their various outposts. They can be converted by removing the middle door, and installing a simpler wheelchair ramp on the front door. Some conversions are more extreme. Last year I was on an open top bus in the Lake District owned by Stagecoach. There was a scrape on its paint showing red underneath. Turned out the bus had spent much of its life running in London before having its roof chopped off.

But the Roastmaster isn't likely to be wanted by anyone outside London. No one wants a bus with two doors, yet alone three. Conversion would be a pain thanks to the rear staircase.

Realistically those buses are going to spend all their lives in London, before (I suspect) an earlier than normal retirement.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 12:37 p.m. | #

Where someone doesn't touch in, it doesn't automatically means they are fare evading. They may have a travelcard (paper or Oyster), or perhaps a non-London pensioner bus pass?
Or perhaps there's an obscure rule somewhere that means you were supposed to enter from the front door and show the driver your pass if it wasn't a 'touch-in' type?
I think typically fare evasion is measured by checking records of where revenue inspectors have completed a full sweep of a bus (or train). It should be possible to compare fare evasion on different types of buses reasonably accurately using this method.

MS | 09.08.19 - 1:58 p.m. | #

To think that TfL Buses has trolled you DG, taking the photo at stop J not M. You should be honoured.

Lux | 09.08.19 - 3:16 p.m. | #

I have just travelled on a No 8 from New Oxford St to the city. I boarded at the front and sat in the middle downstairs. People were still boarding using the middle door but the card reader was disabled with a sticker over it. I noticed one woman who attempted to swipe her Oyster card and then shrug her shoulders and sit down. I did not hear any announcements about which door to use to board/exit.

Timmy | 09.08.19 - 3:17 p.m. | #

Here in Norfolk we seem to get all the buses retired from elsewhere. They become wonderfully 'new' when they are running around Norwich. The UEA students get a bendy bus at present so they might like a Brutemaster for a change.

DGD | 09.08.19 - 4:44 p.m. | #

kev reminds us that Malta had some of London's bendy buses forced on it. Maybe the Boris buses can be sent on a long one-way journey as well.

ap | 09.08.19 - 5:05 p.m. | #

S C H A D E N F R E U D E !!

I hope everyone now recognises that they were literally 'taken for a ride' by the former mayor.

That these overpriced vehicles, which make even Mickey Mouse feel like a giant and do in some measure, have a 'golden' airfix kit feel about them, were all part of his/the plan.

The beginning perhaps, of the banging of the nationalistic drum - 'good new NBfLs for bad old EU artics'. And now hopefully, everyone is aware where all this unnecessary expense has brought us all.

IsarSteve | 09.08.19 - 5:24 p.m. | #

The new scrolling message at Bus Stop M is...

You are now required to board route 8 buses through the front door only. Validation of oyster, contactless card or smart devices must be carried out on the reader by the driver.

The new message aboard the bus is...

You must not board any route 8 or N8 bus using the middle or rear doors. Please use the front door and touch in on the reader located by the driver.

So many variations on a theme.

diamond geezer | Homepage | 09.08.19 - 7:32 p.m. | #

we get it.. you could do a better job,

it needs to be done to make using buses consistent and reduce fare evasion, tfl will get the message across eventually even if not perfect

you'd soon be moaning if they had done the photo shoot clogging up bus stop M

GoCanaries | 09.08.19 - 8:33 p.m. | #

During the Tory leadership hustings, Johnson was asked if he was trustworthy. He had cheek to say 'yes' precisely because he had promised hop-on hop-off busses and 'delivered' them. The detail of the rear door shown in this blog depicts one where it would be possible to run the vehicle with the platform open. Most of them were subsequently built without the facility, with the curved glass pillar being fixed and the door popping outwards to slide open instead.

This case of promising something simple and the reality turning out otherwise - and blatantly lying about it - reminds me of another thing beginning with "B"

NickW | 09.08.19 - 11:01 p.m. | #

Email from TfL today:

From Friday 6 March [2020], we are changing the way you board some buses in your area, and you'll only be able to board New Routemaster buses using the front doors on the following routes:
3, N3,16, N16, 24, 27, N27, 68, 91, 148, 159, 168, 189, 390, 415

ADS | Homepage | 27.02.20 - 12:27 p.m. | #











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