please empty your brain below
Excellent demolition of the case. Just because there are railway lines, it doesn't mean there's a case for a passenger service,

Then again, 20 years ago, the North London Line was dying and look what happened there.

100andthirty | 08.03.26 - 7:20 a.m. | #

I had thought the WLO was about improving the present Southern service between Watford Junction and Clapham Junction (and intermediate places). What are the long term plans for that route?

Ian | 08.03.26 - 7:48 a.m. | #

Wasn't it also 'impossible' at one time to run passenger trains the full length of the West London Line, just like there was 'no need' for a station near Staples Corner because Cricklewood was nearby, the closure of Oxford Street to vehicle traffic and the introduction of Superloop are further administrative U turns. As usual with 'government', something can't be done until it can and vice versa.

Still Anon | 08.03.26 - 7:49 a.m. | #

36 I'm getting Error 404

dg writes: good

Roger Grosvenor | 08.03.26 - 8:02 a.m. | #

Electrification is an issue. Hendon is AC overhead, Hounslow is DC third rail and the middle bit switches from AC to DC at Acton Central

So the logical thing to do would be to electrify the gap between Acton and Brent Cross on AC, and from South Acton to Kew on DC. But given the ORR's opposition to any new live rail electrification (resulting in Merseyrail trains having to lug heavy batteries around all day, every day, in order that a new 1 mile extension can be served) that looks unlikely to happen. So it looks like a bespoke fleet with batteries will be needed, or conversion of Acton Central to South Acton and the Kew triangle to AC .
Unless grandfather rights can be invoked - the connection between South Acton and Kew Bridge was electrified by live rail until 1940

timbo | 08.03.26 - 8:05 a.m. | #

A bit glass half empty, but good questions (I’ll probably spend the rest of the day following the links). However, I think the same could have applied to any of the “new” Overground lines. That Harringay Lanes has more passengers than Harringay, shows the pent up demand for orbital routes.
BTW I thought severance was money you got when you lost your job ;-)

Michael Jones | 08.03.26 - 8:52 a.m. | #

This is clearly an over-ambitious hyped-up scheme that can't realistically happen. What the mayor needs to do instead of hyping his pet scheme is to commission a design phase so that the reality can be determined. Then put it out to public consultation so that people can point out all the loose ends and inconsistencies. Oh wait, hang on ....

Pedantic of Purley | 08.03.26 - 8:59 a.m. | #

I remember when Anglia railways ran their Crossrail service from Norwich to Basinstoke and it used the link line between Lionel Road and Acton, they had to use Deisel trains just for that short unelectified section. I would have thought adding third rail would be the cheapest solution.
The service only ran for a couple of years and one of its problems was accomodating the extra trains on the North London line. Maybe that will be an issue with the West Orbital line as it passes through South Acton and Acton Central.

John | 08.03.26 - 9:07 a.m. | #

Timbo - there are signs at Acton Central station about new overhead 25kV equipment. A few months ago there were signs that work was taking place and last time I went they were saying that the equipment is now live.

Steve Rochford | 08.03.26 - 9:09 a.m. | #

As a resident of Hounslow myself, I really value this post very much because I’ve always too found it quite an unnecessary project that I’ve never understood the worth of - especially compared to projects like the Bakerloo Line Extension & Crossrail 2. I agree with much of the same points:

1) Hounslow NR station is over an entire kilometre walk from the high street, town centre, civic centre & bus station, really hidden in the suburbs that most of my neighbours barely even know it exists like an afterthought - even I’ve only ever used it when needing to hurry towards Kingston for school sometimes but otherwise the East & Central Tube stations are much more better-placed & useful for our neighbourhood that most choose to use (West station is kinda in its own neighbourhood a bit away).

2) Terminating at Hounslow doesn’t make sense - like why can’t they extend the line to atleast finish in Zone 6 and the Greater London boundary by calling at 1 more station at Feltham which is a junction with the Richmond branch & is already much more popular of a station than Hounslow?
Even using the other curve branching to Whitton & Twickenham can be much more sensible (especially as a line connecting Wembley, Brentford & Twickenham stadiums as a result).

3) the amount of out-of-station interchanges is what makes it’s case awkward - Hounslow is out of the question but it misses out on having internal interchanges at:
- South Acton (District & Piccadilly)
- Old Oak Common Lane (Central & Elizabeth Line)
- Harlesden (Bakerloo & Lioness)
- Neasden (Jubilee & Metropolitan)
- Hendon (Northern)
- West Hampstead Thameslink (Mildmay, Jubilee & Metropolitan)

4) I’m kinda glad they’ve cancelled the unnecessary Kew Bridge branch tbh - I’ve never understood the rationale behind its existence when they’re literally also building a Lionel Road station (on the former Kew station site 1853 - 1862) just 100m away on the main line itself. It would have unnecessarily duplicated it with an additional branch & station just minutes of a walk away for a line it connects to at Brentford anyways, confusing locals which station to walk to for the quickest train.

5) An interchange station beyond Hendon with the Northern Line for it & Thameslink where they intersect around The Hyde sounds like a missed opportunity given the relatively long gap both Thameslink & Northern Line currently have in the area when by-passing each other, can also be helpful for Middlesex Uni students.

6) The main use case of the line itself is something that has questioned me - like 95% of times in Hounslow/ Isleworth/ Syon Lane/ Brentford - we want to commute either into Central London or back into Heathrow, not Zone 5 stations of North London that we can take buses & Superloop for much cheaper & directly into town centres & high streets.

Achyut Chaudhary | 08.03.26 - 9:30 a.m. | #

I can't help but think that the line would be more useful if it ran to West Hampstead Thameslink and then joined up with the Gospel Oak to Barking line at Upper Holloway using the connection that alrwady exists there. Would need a grade segregated flyover on the Midland Mainline somewhere. Hendon (closer to West Hendon really) is a bit of an odd place to terminate.

The station at Harlesden as an interchange with the bakerloo line seems a bit pointless to me given Willesden Junction would largely fill that role anyway at least from the west, a station slightly further up the line at Craven Park or Church End wpuld better serve the communities in Harlesden currently unserved by rail and reduce unnecesssry duplication.

dg writes: they’ve done some modelling and reckon a Hendon branch would be considerably better used than a West Hampstead branch.

katanga | 08.03.26 - 9:41 a.m. | #

I seem to recall earlier proposals did include a west Hampstead thameslink branch (dg writes: see 5); but accommodating that on the existing platforms would seem to be too constraining to existing services, and rebuilding a fairly recently rebuilt station to add a bay platform would be expensive (and TfL would likely prefer to spend to make West Hampstead underground step free to platform to match the other two stations

MilesT | 08.03.26 - 10:00 a.m. | #

30. It's not just 2 trains and hour Brentford - Hounslow, it's 4 in the peaks and hopefully all day when SWR finally announces its recast timetable. When SWT ran the service their planned pre-covid timetable improvements implied as many as 6 an hour with extra Windsor via Hounslow journeys as well as Hounslow loop stoppers. I doubt that section could cope with 6 plus the 4 WLO trains.

ap | 08.03.26 - 10:00 a.m. | #

27. Yes. 1,000 new homes approved for the old Sega building site. Development includes space for a future railway station at Lionel Road.

Rod | 08.03.26 - 10:34 a.m. | #

Compared with this, re-opening East Brixton on the Windrush line and Camberwell on Thameslink, looks like small change.

cau1khead | 08.03.26 - 10:42 a.m. | #

Of course this line would get some use, but to me it's always felt like a solution looking for a problem.

Mikey C | 08.03.26 - 10:46 a.m. | #

You've highlighted the problems of trying to shoehorn in a new line.

As one who used to travel regularly between Hounslow and Harrow on the Piccadilly line via Acton Town this proposal wouldn't have helped me in the least!

Cornish Cockney | 08.03.26 - 11:59 a.m. | #

Great post and as noted, demolition of the case as it stands.

I wonder if there is a bigger picture though: it's not about whether it makes sense, is it about whether it will deliver a reasonable income stream for TfL? It must stand alone, we have seen that a Labour government will not reverse the idiocy of withdrawing the £700 m grant that TfL lost under a Conservative government.

Is this why TfL were given Crossrail? Why it was allowed to introduce tolls on the Blackwall Tunnel? Is this the real reason for pushing ahead with the rail proposals documented here?

After all, TfL has list over 10 years £7 billion of grants from Central government. The GLA has much more limited funding and cash raising options than say the original GLC, pre-1979.

So my hypothesis is it must press ahead with schemes like this regardless of the inconsistencies that you have highlighted.

Le Ver | 08.03.26 - 12:38 p.m. | #

....say it, sorted. DG has examined the case. No need for a consultation now.

scrumpy | 08.03.26 - 1:22 p.m. | #

If I had had a £5 for every letter I received as London Underground’s PR manager that crudely Biro’d together some vaguely congruent freight lines, with the author imagining they were Brunel, I’d have lived well. This seems, however, to more than cater for the pent-up wave of demand for the Hounslow-Hendon corridor. Well worth anyone’s £6m to decide it’s a non starter.

David B | 08.03.26 - 1:22 p.m. | #

Steve Rochford - Acton Central has been on 25kV for several years now. If they've been installing anything it's either renewal or related to the electrification of the connection between Acton Main Line and Acton Wells Junction

Achyut - If it would be difficuklt to fit the trains in at Hounslow, it would be even more difficult at Feltham or Twickenham. Also runningb to West Hampstead would be rather pointless, as there is alerady a more direct route between Acton Central and West Hanpstead.

katanga - I like the idea of a station at Craven Park. I might see more of my sons then!

Timbo | 08.03.26 - 1:45 p.m. | #

21. There is an empty bit of industrial land at the end of Midland Terrace but it’s a tight squeeze and yes it looks like they will have to build two separate stations connected by a bridge.

David Jones | 08.03.26 - 2:24 p.m. | #

My hope is that a lot of these questions will be answered in the consultation TfL said they're launching this summer.

I think there's a very big question you haven't asked: will the line be electrified? What trains will it use? Electrification is sure to be costly and there's some low bridges on the line unsuitable for overhead electrification. Would the mayor really be proposing a brand new line use diesel trains after all his achievements on ULEZ? Or could TfL cough up the money for battery trains like on the Greenford branch?

3) Your link is broken for me, here's one I found that works.

dg writes: fixed, thanks

TW | 08.03.26 - 3:04 p.m. | #

25. Actonians are certainly getting worked up about the possibility of their level crossings by South Acton and Acton Central stations being permanently closed, creating big traffic diversions and needing pedestrian bridges and lifts. Alternatively, the hope is that upgrading the signalling will reduce the time the crossings gates have to be closed.

ActonMan | 08.03.26 - 3:25 p.m. | #

TfL projects: Ladbrokes' odds (or respondent's own) odds on this one; or the takeover of Great Northern's Moorgate-Welwyn/Hertford lines; or the takeover of Southeastern Railway's Metro services. Odds expressed in orders of magnitude:1.

Gordon | 08.03.26 - 4:09 p.m. | #

If there wasn't a railway already there, nobody would be proposing building a new one from round the back of Brentford's football ground to sort of near Brent Cross Shopping Centre.

Westerleigh Junction | 08.03.26 - 7:28 p.m. | #

Just what we need, another train line.

Anyoldname | 08.03.26 - 7:29 p.m. | #

Living in Northwest London and having worked in Southwest London and having also to travel to Mill Hill regularly in rush hour conditions I see that I am one of many, many other similar commuters. London is woefully inadequately endowed with orbital transportation links and any that are built will be used if they are reliable. So, if we cannot afford or get land to build new transport links and must use existing snippets of old infrastructure so be it. But as DG points out please can we properly plan it, so it does not run grossly over time and budget.

SimonP | 09.03.26 - 9:35 a.m. | #

Trams are the answer for outer London. So long as the per / km construction cost, at the moment ridiculous, can be reduced.
I dislike arguing by analogy, but there is one that works well for London:
PARIS.
Or, more properly, Ile-de-France.
Total tram length there is about to hit 200 km.
(Plus the C1 Telepherique.)

William | 09.03.26 - 10:52 a.m. | #

I feel an opportunity for an 8th Acton-named station is missed. Old Oak Common really should be Acton North-East :)

Louise | 09.03.26 - 4:37 p.m. | #











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