please empty your brain below
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I guessed 5 hours for the circuit.
Messiah | 16.03.18 - 7:16 a.m. | #
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Down at sub-surface level, how long do the trains take? And is there a significant difference between the Inner rail and the Outer rail? Someone will know.
RayL | 16.03.18 - 7:20 a.m. | #
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Including DG and TfL, who say 57 minutes in the article itself. No difference between inner and outer rail is mentioned.
Robert Butlin | 16.03.18 - 7:29 a.m. | #
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And next time, by bus?
RogerB | 16.03.18 - 7:51 a.m. | #
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Knackered after only 2.3 hours? I'm disappointed.
John | 16.03.18 - 8:14 a.m. | #
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RayL - though you might intuitively think it's significantly further on the outer rail, the extra distance around a circle is just 2 * pi * (r1 - r2), i.e. it just relates to the difference in radii. So in this case, where the track separation (centre to centre) is maybe 10m at most, the extra distance travelled is probably no more than 60m.
At an average speed of 15 mph ~ 7 m/s, this is under 10 seconds. And the average time includes slowing for and being stopped at the stations, so it's probably closer to 5 seconds or even less.
The same is true of eg a rope held tight around the equator (of a physicist's perfectly spherical planet) - you have to make the rope just 6 metres longer in order to hold it 1 metre off the surface all the way around. Doesn't seem like it can be true, but maths doesn't' lie :-)
X | 16.03.18 - 8:45 a.m. | #
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A friend and I are attempting to walk all the lines in turn. We did the circle in about 7 hours, but with 'the handle' included and in one go - our pace always ends up being very erratic, starting near to 4mph and finishing under 3mph.
We've also done the Jubilee, Bakerloo and District. Exhausting, but fun days out!
Our first one was the Overground 'circle' in one day, inspired by Iain Sinclair's book. It was a terrible idea - 30 miles and 13 hours later, I thought my legs would never be the same again.
BP | 16.03.18 - 8:47 a.m. | #
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I did the Circle (including the arm) a few years ago. Started at Paddington, went all the way round then down; by the time I got to Hammersmith I was a stumbling wreck! I think the distance was somewhere around 21.5 miles, taking around 6-6.5 hours. Paddington-Hammersmith was not worth the extra effort...
Stuart | Homepage | 16.03.18 - 8:49 a.m. | #
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Regarding how long the trains take, once upon a time (1969), London transport published a small book with a maroon cover entitled "Underground Guide", price one shilling.
This shows the first and last trains for the original Circle Line. The time for the first train on a Sunday was 59 minutes, Monday to Friday 48 minutes. Trains were every 12 minutes on Sundays and 7 to 7 1/2 minutes morning and afternon for the rest of the week.
strawbrick | 16.03.18 - 8:50 a.m. | #
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I would assume (without any real evidence) that the reason there isn't a station between King's Cross and Farringdon is that Mount Pleasant would be the rough centre point, which is both a significant hill and the site of a Royal Mail depot with its own underground railway, which could cause some complications. But does anyone know better..?
ChrisM | 16.03.18 - 9:41 a.m. | #
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I'm always on the lookout for new walks to do in London, so I'll definitely keep this in mind - thanks.
Jonathan Wadman | 16.03.18 - 10:02 a.m. | #
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You will have passed by my temporary abode, DG. Stayed a few nights earlier this week in the Travelodge Farringdon, on Kings Cross Road (which is a longish walk from both points). The Circle Line trains could be heard rumbling beneath the hotel's foundations and carrying up into the 4th floor bedrooms. Not intrusive, but really rather comforting.
petras409 | 16.03.18 - 10:19 a.m. | #
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Are the two directions around the circle now commonly known as "Inner" and "Outer" ?
This sounds like Glasgow where their circle line (the "clockwork orange") advertises itself as two different lines, "Inner" and "Outer".
kev | 16.03.18 - 10:20 a.m. | #
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kev: I wouldn't say commonly. They're referred to that internally by London Underground (eg see [working timetable] ) and by some of the Men Who like Railways, but I don't think normal passengers would use those terms. At stations it tends to be advertised by compass direction, and colloquially I suspect "clockwise" and "anticlockwise" get some use.
Muzer | 16.03.18 - 10:23 a.m. | #
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Both figures sound competitive. A casual walk is usually 2mph to me.
Does TfL give a basically identical measurement, i.e. main entrance to main entrance?
And does this walk help you on your possible future random visit to one of these stations' hinterlands?
Patrickov | 16.03.18 - 12:08 p.m. | #
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Outer rail trains to tend to get held up more than inner as they have conflicts with other trains crossing their paths at Minories Junction, Gloucester Road, High Street Kensington, Praed Street Junction, Baker Street and Aldgate.
I doubt that the Post office railway precluded a station at Mount Pleasant - it wasn't a problem at Liverpool Street or Paddington, and anyway the Circle Line was there first. I had assumed the reason was because the Metropolitan railway's original raison d'etre was getting people from the main line stations to the City. Clerkenwell is walking distance from the original terminus at Farringdon so there would have been few takers for the service, and the railway didn't want its services clogged up with short-hop passengers anyway. There are other examples of long gaps between a terminus and the first station out - see Deptford, New Cross, Finsbury Park, Acton Main Line for examples. local stations betw
timbo again | Homepage | 16.03.18 - 12:19 p.m. | #
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"One of the more significant differences is between Embankment and Westminster"
Maybe they stopped to play one of the games on offer on Westminister Bridge.
Bob | 16.03.18 - 12:21 p.m. | #
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How long does the train take?
Are TfL’s figures platform to platform, maybe?
Jimmy | 16.03.18 - 1:02 p.m. | #
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petras409, you should listen to "This City Never Sleeps" by Eurythmics, if you don't already know it.
David | 16.03.18 - 1:03 p.m. | #
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ChrisM, to simplify what Timbo said, it's because there's (and was) bugger-all around there. Clerkenwell/Exmouth Market is served just fine by Farringdon. The Circle wasn't built for the locals to potter about town, it was built to connect the mainline stations to where people work.
Chz | 16.03.18 - 1:15 p.m. | #
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They should rename it, and call it the Bottle Line.
Sekula | 16.03.18 - 1:20 p.m. | #
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Tfl consider a standing walking speed of 1.33 m/s, 80m/min, 4.8k/h, or approximately 3mph
Michael Churchill | 16.03.18 - 3:38 p.m. | #
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Re Sekula: Or maybe "The Teacup Line"
Colesville Garth | 16.03.18 - 4:29 p.m. | #
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Another reason preventing the addition of a station at Clerkenwell/Mount Pleasant is that at this point it's a four-track railway in a cutting/cut-and-cover tunnel that's probably shallower than surrounding basements, and to make it worse it's immediately adjacent to the Fleet Storm Drain.
Also worth noting that the gap between the stations was somewhat shorter when the line opened, as the original King's Cross Met station was further east, on the same site as the old Thameslink station.
G | 16.03.18 - 5:58 p.m. | #
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I used to be a driver on the Circle line and always felt that the inner was quicker.
Tetramesh | Homepage | 16.03.18 - 6:32 p.m. | #
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David,
Thanks, yes a very atmospheric song.
petras409 | 16.03.18 - 9:05 p.m. | #
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Mr Diamond Geezer - thank you for some really interesting reading. Only discovered you this morning (trying to find a central line map)
Your writing is fabulous. Hope to read all your past works too.
Many thanks
Sue Shepheard | 26.04.19 - 4:33 a.m. | #
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