please empty your brain below
I like the whole idea of getting staff physically out with customers, rather than hiding them behind perspex windows. It makes the staff more approachable and helps break down the "them & us" barrier.

Jon Jones | 08.11.17 - 7:02 a.m. | #

And fares are cheap on the original sections as it avoided zone 1

John | 08.11.17 - 7:18 a.m. | #

A few years ago when the tracks near Camden Road were blocked for a while I realised that the best source for passenger information about London Overground was National Rail Enquiries. This would not be true to the same extent about Chiltern or South West Trains as-was. Nothing has changed my mind since.

Sprout Eater | 08.11.17 - 7:21 a.m. | #

k) Subsidy: Whilst the subsidy per person has gone down dramatically, the overall subsidy has gone up and is more than for comparable London TOCs

l) Including the value of passengers' time when evaluating cost/benefit. The primary reason why the tube and London Overground is more successful, in my opinion, is that the benefits of customer time for the whole journey made are taken into account - unlike other TOCs which really only look at station-station time and effects on their revenue.

This is why many other factors such as additional entrances and maintaining a frequent off-peak and evening service get more priority on London Overground than other TOCs.

Pedantic of Purley | 08.11.17 - 7:34 a.m. | #

@Pedantic of Purley

Your point of looking at the whole passenger journey is spot on. Back in the day of British Rail, if a mainline train was delayed, they'd often delay a connecting suburban service so passengers wouldn't get stranded. In the modern world of rail devolution and punctuality targets this just won't happen.

Jon Jones | 08.11.17 - 8:06 a.m. | #

Controversial I know but timely - no guards to go on strike.

Jon Combe | 08.11.17 - 8:36 a.m. | #

And one negative - the junction between the line from Clapham Junction and the line to West Croydon in the direction of Surrey quays always has some sort of wait. Maybe 30 secs maybe 5 minutes. But they know the train is coming so why not ensure smooth running?

Richard | Homepage | 08.11.17 - 9:32 a.m. | #

Technically that's a positive, Richard, because that stretch of line didn't exist before the Overground came along :)

diamond geezer | Homepage | 08.11.17 - 9:34 a.m. | #

You used "vision" and "brand" in a single post. I need a little lie down!

Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 08.11.17 - 9:47 a.m. | #

It might be cheaper but it's not always quicker, try typing journeys into the TfL journey planner website such as Walthamstow Central to Headstone Lane, a perfect journey to cut across on the North London Line? No, JP sends you into London and out again. With awful connectivity in parts of London, the Overground is only useful as an orbital link if one of its stations is an objective. Until line speeds are improved, forget it.

Max Roberts | 08.11.17 - 9:52 a.m. | #

My experience of staff out of ticket office is a positive one - on Leytonstone High Road (when the bloody thing is actually open for service) they say hello and makes the morning brighter. Much better than stuck in a ticket office. I know this is your hobby horse, DG, but you're very much in the minority.

Mark | 08.11.17 - 10:57 a.m. | #

Meanwhile, people in Southeastern Metro land still have none of the Overground benefits because Chris Grayling blocked rail devolution for naked party political reasons.

Let's hope he gets reshuffled soon !

Gerry | 08.11.17 - 11:33 a.m. | #

@ Max Roberts - last week I went from Watford High St to Blackhorse Rd. OK it wasn't exactly at high speed but the connections were short and the trains weren't massively overloaded as it was mid afternoon.

I could have changed at Bushey for a fast to Euston and then used the Vic Line but I only had a 2 min connection at Bushey and didn't really fancy the slog through Euston and then a likely stand all the way on the tube.

The Overground does have a somewhat slack timetable to ensure on time departures and that contributes to the slow speed. I doubt there is a lot of scope for a mass speeding up of services given the moves to increase frequencies and the large volumes of people carried between relatively closely spaced stations.

PC | 08.11.17 - 11:52 a.m. | #

k) Cheaper fares. The Overground network offers more options to avoid National Rail services or zone 1.

For example, Forest Hill to Bond Street at peak times. It's £3.30 for Forest Hill > Canada Water > Bond Street with the Overground and Jubilee line. It's £5.10 for Forest Hill > London Bridge > Bond Street with Southern trains and Jubilee line.

I commute to Whitechapel for £1.70 and walk for 20 min to Liverpool St. It saves me money and I'm more active.

Mars Bonfire | 08.11.17 - 1:10 p.m. | #

@Mars Bonfire

A rare exception where TfL fares are available south of the river. Most south Londoners still have to pay the Privatisation Premium that most North Londoners do not. Thank you Mr Grayling.

timbo | 08.11.17 - 1:50 p.m. | #

@Richard. Two reasons for the delay approaching Surrey Quays. To facilitate smooth running on the busiest section north of Surrey Quays by allowing for pathing constraints and possible delays on the section from Clapham Junction. And passive provision for a station stop if Surrey Canal Road ever gets funded.

Brock | 08.11.17 - 2:12 p.m. | #

Paint and lighting. (And deep cleaning too)

Nearly as important as the staff presence as improving the ambience of the stations, getting rid the air of prolonged neglect that a lot of them had, all of which contributed to the sense of insecurity, after dark. Particuarly true of the North London and Gospel Oak and Watford DC lines, I'd say. Some of those stations used to be spectacularly grim, by London standards at least. (Which even under Silverlink was maybe less grim than neglected urban stations in other parts of England)

Dominic H | 08.11.17 - 3:03 p.m. | #

Some Overground stations on the East London Line are not above ground, e.g. Canada Water.

Gerry | 08.11.17 - 7:37 p.m. | #

The point raised by @Max Roberts (9.52) about the dodgy advice given by TfL Journey Planner is worthy of further investigation.
I often check it when planning a new journey, but seldom accept the solution that is offered, as more efficient variants are available. Is it set to smooth out passenger flows, I wonder.

Frank F | 09.11.17 - 7:35 a.m. | #

Overground certainly has come a long way from those initial Silverlink trains with the benches of 3 seats quickly reduced to 2, and with a simple white sticker saying London Overground shoved on the side.

I used to ride the West London Line in the Silverlink days and it was a truly horrendous experience - overcrowding at peak times was far worse than the Central Line at Oxford Circus.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 09.11.17 - 9:30 a.m. | #











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