please empty your brain below
Way to go, encouraging drivers to look at a giant screen, rather than where they are going. What could possibly go wrong?

Jon Combe | 19.10.17 - 7:32 a.m. | #

I noticed the screen in Kings Cross earlier this week - it’s not attractive.

I don’t really mind advertising (a neseccary evil) when it’s well implemented. The ribbon screens on the escalators sound interesting, but I find the Canary Wharf and Kings Cross screens more unbearable because of their “tacked on” nature. The Kings Cross one looks almost temporary.

Matthew | 19.10.17 - 7:35 a.m. | #

I detest those screens at Canary Wharf. Really intrusive. But at least that’s just a crime against good design.
Putting that advert over an extremely busy road Junction? Insanity. On the one hand, there are endless campaigns to persuade drivers not to be distracted by mobile phones when driving. Yet on the other hand, the authorities sanction this. Big colourful images dragg8ng the driver’s eyes and attention away from the road. Unbelievable.

IslandDweller | 19.10.17 - 7:39 a.m. | #

I love the bright lights of the city. The more animated the better. More please.

Jimmy | 19.10.17 - 7:40 a.m. | #

Chief of Economic Deliverance?
A title inspired by 'W1A' perhaps?

So that's all good then.

Victor Vectis | 19.10.17 - 7:42 a.m. | #

Also saw on the telly that a similar giant screen is going up at Piccadilly Circus, but it will be targeting people by using info from phones other digital items people are carrying.

We love you big brother.

Doug | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 7:43 a.m. | #

The big screen at King’s Cross has been used to show a film as part of the Art on the Underground programme, called The Bureaucracy of Angels (https://art.tfl.gov.uk/projects/the-bureaucracy-of-angels/ ). It is due to run until 25 November. When I went through yesterday it had all been turned off though.

The installation looks rather temporary, with all of the wiring clipped to the ceiling and walls, so I didn’t have the impression that this was going to be in place for long.

Aha, that makes sense. Updated, thanks!

Abe | 19.10.17 - 7:44 a.m. | #

This at Piccadilly Circus:
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/piccadilly-circus-new-massive-advertising-screen

doug | 19.10.17 - 7:48 a.m. | #

I would rather pay higher fares and have a nice commercial free space.

I also doubt that is a majority view.

Andrew Bowden | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 7:51 a.m. | #

I don't mind visual intrusions so much, it's more the auditory intrusions that annoy me.

John | 19.10.17 - 8:06 a.m. | #

As I am now getting old, I fear my memory of a drive to reduce visual clutter in the built environment must have been a dream.

b | 19.10.17 - 8:21 a.m. | #

The most-used button on my TV remote is the Mute button (for when the ads come on). When online the ads go straight from the Inbox to the Trash. When out and about I have developed a 'blind spot' for ads.

The sadness is that screens are needed for real, useful, information on railway stations, and on bus routes, rather than useless adverts. The info screen in yesterday's DG is a good start but so much more is needed.

Here's an example. Yesterday a broken rail just outside West Croydon station caused delays and cancellations right across the South London metro network. It won't be fixed today. Any mention at West Croydon last night? Not a word. No information screen. Grrr.

RayL | 19.10.17 - 8:30 a.m. | #

Even without Sadiq Khan’s fare policies it’s easier to bill advertisers in hard currency than to get some in fares or taxes.

Sprout Eater | 19.10.17 - 8:56 a.m. | #

This is nothing new - back in 1888 George Gissing was complaining bitterly about the advertising on trams and stations, and was concerned that the delicate morals of his fellow Victorians might not cope! These screens and the mysterious sounding DX3 would probably disappoint, but not shock, one of my favourite documentarians of London.

Mike | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 9:01 a.m. | #

Lenin: 'there is nothing that capitalism cannot sell that it will not sell" .... with the help of course of the 'Labour' mayor ....

Brian | 19.10.17 - 9:25 a.m. | #

Message to advertisers - if you want to excite and engage me, it is going to take a lot more than a load of flashy screens and blanket coverage with the same adverts over and over and over...

Jimbo | 19.10.17 - 9:53 a.m. | #

The fad for screens at the front of the upper deck on buses seems thankfully to have passed..... unless you know different.

Paul | 19.10.17 - 10:05 a.m. | #

The New Malden display has attracted a lot of opprobrium not only as a distraction to motorists but because it reduces sight lines on the junction above the underpass, and local residents have complained of the light pollution.
http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/15115675
http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/15518567

timbo | 19.10.17 - 10:05 a.m. | #

Old grumps moan about latest technology (on which, in general, they utterly rely) being applied to old and familiar purpose - advertising.

Nothing to see here.

David | 19.10.17 - 10:05 a.m. | #

Isn't this almost certainly a losing battle, though? As we almost all are carrying portable computers with a nearly infinite variety of news and entertainment, both useful and distracting, and wireless data becomes almost omnipresent across the transport network - why would you stare at ads voluntarily? Gazing at your phone is not some grand strike against modern capitalism, but if it's a choice between content (laced with some ads) on my phone that I seek out and am interested in, and screens that spray out commercial messages indiscriminately...

Ben | 19.10.17 - 10:05 a.m. | #

There's been a huge and very bright screen at the Holland Park roundabout (Shepherd's Bush) for years. It's facing traffic entering the roundabout from Holland Road. So if you're trying to get to the West Cross Route, just drive for the light and hope there's nothing else in the way because you won't see it.

I'm told there is a similar large and very bright screen outside Derby County's football stadium (whatever they call it this week). It is also a distraction to motorists. A complaint has been made; the response is that it has to be so bright for commercial reasons. What price safety?

Notts_Railman | 19.10.17 - 10:08 a.m. | #

I know there have been a couple of shunts on the A102 heading north which co-incidentally have occurred just before the screen.

Both times were cars hitting stopped traffic. I can't help but wonder the miscreants were looking at the screen.

Does anyone know if it's possible to find out where accidents occur? Is there any sort of database kept?

Chris | 19.10.17 - 10:21 a.m. | #

Shades of the original Blade Runner. How long before these ads have sound as well?

Rick | 19.10.17 - 10:29 a.m. | #

In China and Thailand, amongst others, they have been using LED signs for years primarily for traffic information. [image]

Secondary use when all is running well is advertising.
Beats our 16 letter VMS "Bl Tnl Clsd. Use Alt Rte"

scrumpy | 19.10.17 - 10:38 a.m. | #

Ghastly.

Burntweenie | 19.10.17 - 11:04 a.m. | #

At least the announcements (audible and visual) on the actual buses trains and tubes are not diluted by advertising (yet). Although there is so much unneccesary verbiage* already that many people filter it all out (or talk over it) so that the important information (like "this train will not call at........") is missed.

timbo | 19.10.17 - 12:25 p.m. | #

@scrumpy
"Secondary use when all is running well is advertising. "
Bad idea - people will learn to ignore them. If they are only used for traffic information, then people will know that if the sign says anything, they should read it.

timbo | 19.10.17 - 12:28 p.m. | #

"Enhancing the customer experience" surely applies when you're on the train too. Here comes the train operator's sponsored voice as the doors open: "Mind the gap and mind how you brush your teeth to avoid causing gaps. Use new green Mintytube toothpaste to make your Mornington Crescent pleasant."

We'd all enjoy a happy conversation with a licensed chugger on our tube journeys too, especially on those warm and cheery summer rush-hour journeys into town. In limited numbers though. We wouldn't want to chat with more than two would we?

Pimlico Pete | 19.10.17 - 12:33 p.m. | #

Gatwick Airport has already dipped a toe in to the audio-and-visual advertising space, all along the North terminal skybridge. It's remarkably tastefully done, but in the wrong hands it could become a nightmare. Hopefully 'safety concerns' will prevent TfL going too far down the audio route in the future...

David | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 12:42 p.m. | #

I imagine that these video screens are very prominent when they are first introduced but regular travellers will soon learn to ignore them.

On the tube these things are an annoyance but distracting drivers on the north circular seems a very dubious idea.

Martin | 19.10.17 - 1:07 p.m. | #

Network Rail staff told me that Tfl considered it too dangerous to put what would then have been South West Trains departure screens up alongside the escalators leading from the Bakerloo/Northern and W&C ticket hall into Waterloo Station.

Clearly from the comments above that safety rule doesn't apply if money can be made.

ap | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 1:21 p.m. | #

I'd be quite happy for them to plaster the whole network with ads if travel were free!

G | 19.10.17 - 1:22 p.m. | #

To pick up on Timbo's earlier remark there have also been Mayor's Questions about TfL's use of large screen roadside advertising panels. It'll only take one serious accident to cause a political fall out and demands for them to be scrapped.

I fear that whatever architectural flourishes have been incorporated into Crossrail will end up being swamped by commercial advertising. I don't really want to be walking around large caverous stations to then be bombarded with large electronic advertising panels. The only minor saving grace is that extensive use of platform doors in the central area will likely prevent trackside projection advertising. They'll probably try to run adverts inside the tunnels instead as has been trialled in the Far East.

Modest advertising on tube platforms has long been part of using the tube. Being bombarded with the stuff everywhere from floors, ceilings, escalator infill panels, ticket gates etc is just appalling and potentially disorientating for people. I'd rather the fares went up modestly than being saddled with this nonsense. Still when the economy collapses there'll be no advertising revenues anyway - a traditional income source that does very badly during recessions.

PC | 19.10.17 - 1:40 p.m. | #

"extensive use of platform doors in the central area will likely prevent trackside projection advertising"
They'll just put the advertising on the doors instead.

As for ticket gates, SWR have "the journey starts here" plastered all over the ticket gates at Waterloo - but curiously only on the side you can see as you leave the platform......

timbo | 19.10.17 - 2:15 p.m. | #

On the bright side.........here in New York City a very intrusive elevated pixel-based sign next to the approach road to the mid-town tunnel was removed as it's brightness was distracting too many drivers. Possibly the AA or RAC could have distracting signs removed around London.

BRIAN BERKE | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 2:51 p.m. | #

Some black cabs have carried LED panel adverts on the roof for a couple of years at least. They're distracting if you're not expecting them.

But the worst visual intrusions for me are the all-over advertising wraps on Boris buses. Even over the window frames.

Gordon | 19.10.17 - 3:53 p.m. | #

@timbo 12:28

It's for this exact reason that in the last year or two Highways England has completely stopped putting generic safety messages on their roadside VMSs (don't hog the middle lane, red x means stop and all that). Signs now generally default to journey times instead, although the messages are still rather too frequent for my liking.

Sadly this thinking hasn't extended north of the border, with Transport Scotland still feeling the need to remind drivers to buckle up and drive safe every two miles.

Geoff | 19.10.17 - 4:38 p.m. | #

Perhaps it's just me or perhaps it is the advertisers' lack of effort, but I cannot recall a single brand advertised by these bright, animated boards. I can however recall a certain well-known French wine region which embedded itself into my brain by means of a series of beautifully designed faux-vintage posters currently doing the rounds on the Underground.

I find it oddly encouraging that this is the case, and goes to show that good design is worth more than any amount of gadgetry.

On that basis I am happy for the advertisers to help pay for my journey, because it seems they're too lazy to create anything original but will keep the money coming in.

Michael T | 19.10.17 - 4:46 p.m. | #

Plastering every available surface on the Underground with advertising is hardly new - look at this view from 1894

At least this was a one off.

timbo | 19.10.17 - 5:19 p.m. | #

In a city where Picadilly Circus is legendary for its advertising, this seems like much ado about nothing. Advertising innovation is what London is known for. Most buildings have ads slapped on their sides, decades if not longer after the product has gone away. The underground has had ads since the first trains started running. Every red bus has a billboard. The OXO building beat the ad ban. If companies want to pay the Tfl to slap a commercial in an area most Londoners will ignore in three months, where is the harm? Imagine how nice it will be when Tfl uses the money to improve services they wouldn't have been able to pay for without fare increases. Sounds like a win-minor inconvenience/win to me.

Steven | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 5:20 p.m. | #

Terminal 5 has some massive ones.

Last time I got a flight from there, they were all advertising Chesham Rugby Club for several hours. An amateur side seeking to recruit new players. It was truly bizarre to see their ad on massive screens at a place that would have so low a proportion of people potentially able to respond positively (even including Amershonians like me who, have no interest in playing Rugby and even less in doing it for Chesham, rather than Amersham & Chiltern). Hopefully the surreal experience I enjoyed there didn't cost them too much!

Si | 19.10.17 - 5:52 p.m. | #

Alternatively you can enjoy the dull advertising experience on the Great Northern underground stations from Highbury & Islington to Moorgate. The change in atmosphere in the cross platform interchange from the Victoria Line to Great Northern at Highbury is extraordinary. Platform 4 is lined by a series of charity posters that have been up for so many years that they are now absolutely filthy. There is 'small print' for text donations that is now totally unreadable due to the layers of grime. Passengers might welcome a screen here just to brighten up the gloom!

Dave | 19.10.17 - 6:18 p.m. | #

RayL - I'm glad someone else overuses the mute button on the remote,it saves me shouting too much abuse at the screen.
And how useful is the little delete button for online adverts. I think advertising agencies are on a loser with me,I can sometimes remember a funny ad,but can't for the life of me think what it was selling. 😄

Jo W | 19.10.17 - 6:30 p.m. | #

The irritating thing about advertising is that most people with something to sell are convinced that it works. Now some of these may have been deluded by the sellers of advertising space, but surely they can't all be wrong?

I would like to believe that they are all wasting their money, but sadly I cannot quite bring myself to do so.

Malcolm | 19.10.17 - 7:27 p.m. | #

As a Tube 'purist', I am very much against this level of intrusive advertising. To say nothing of how the size of the screens destroys the impression of vastness when one descends the escalators into Canary Wharf.

But, as a TfL Employee, I am more than aware of how skint the organisation is and am pragmatic enough to welcome additional income... even from a source as uncouth as in your face advertising.

Marc | 19.10.17 - 7:53 p.m. | #

Having an exceptionable skill at being unobservant, unless they start advertising on the floor, it'll all bypass me completely!

Cornish Cockney | 19.10.17 - 8:12 p.m. | #

If I remember correctly there is also one at the Euston Underpass.

I have never understood how it is illegal to look at a phone, but perfectly OK to have these large, brilliantly lit, distracting advertising signs above busy roads.

Dave | Homepage | 19.10.17 - 9:27 p.m. | #

Yes Euston Underpass has these in both directions. Even the bin lorries in Camden have advertising screens on them these days...

Jon B | 20.10.17 - 2:35 p.m. | #

I think I'm right in saying that the enormous edifice over Wandsworth Bridge roundabout with its advertising screens was designed from the get-go to show moving adverts. Immediately the council and/or the highways dept. banned that use citing the dangerous distraction they would be for the traffic joining. It then took ages for static displays to be shown, so they were probably hard to get past the authorities as well.
So what's changed in the ensuing years?
I agree with the general consensus. Let the fools pay TfL. We can look the other way. Except perhaps for the blummin enormous ones which is where we need the architects, designers and guardians of the public realm to get really stroppy and revolt.

J P | 21.10.17 - 1:52 a.m. | #

IslandDweller, couldn't have put it better myself. Not only is the rapid movement (and flicker) disorienting for many, the brightness causes afterglow on the retinas whenever the ambient light is anything darker than a lunchtime in June.

I could also go on about the brightness (and shape) of LED car light arrays aswell, but that's a whole other kettle of fish...

Mark Boulton | Homepage | 23.10.17 - 4:22 p.m. | #











TridentScan v2.10.0 | Privacy Policy