please empty your brain below
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I think I prefer the posts on bus stops. And that's saying something.
Mark | 13.08.17 - 7:19 a.m. | #
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If I was in charge of all this, I would a) apologise and b) revert to the correct first train display, and c) do no more until the new system is rolled out.
100andthirty | 13.08.17 - 7:28 a.m. | #
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I think someone at TfL is doing this deliberately to ensure DG always has something local to write about.
RogerB | 13.08.17 - 7:44 a.m. | #
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The "trains listed in impossible time order" bug is seen on other lines too. Could be fixed with one line of code... :-/
Dan | 13.08.17 - 7:49 a.m. | #
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Are they planning to run trin times in binary?
Dave | 13.08.17 - 7:53 a.m. | #
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I checked the Westbound times given at Aldgate East on the Web and they appear perfectly reasonable.
Even though based on the same data.
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube/stop/940GZZLUADE/aldgate-east-underground-station
Mike D | 13.08.17 - 8:21 a.m. | #
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The Aldgate East times aren't based on the same data. They've been correct for years.
Bow Road has long been a special case, with no data on the web whatsoever.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 13.08.17 - 8:25 a.m. | #
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What is the longest time that one might have to wait for a train that is said to be zero minutes away?
How many hundreds and thousands of people travel from Bow Road station every day?
Andrew | 13.08.17 - 8:29 a.m. | #
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The BOW ROAD NEXT TRAIN INDICATOR DISASTER
by W.T.McGonagall
Beautiful Bow Road Station of the railway
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That the West-bound Next Trai-
n Indicator speaks falsely of trains upon the line
Which will be remembered for a very long time.
Oh! Ill-fated West-bound Next Train Indicator of the railway
I now must conclude my lay
Your indications really are a teaser
Would anyone know if it were not for Diamond Geezer?
W.T.McGonagall | 13.08.17 - 8:34 a.m. | #
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Fulham Broadway (westbound) has had a similar affliction for aaaaaaaaaages.
Yesterday, descend the steps. 1st.Train....Edgware Road
Train Approaching
Train pulls in, destination .... Barking.
John U.K. | 13.08.17 - 8:39 a.m. | #
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I always enjoy it when DG gets a recurring bee in his bonnet.
Scott | Homepage | 13.08.17 - 9:14 a.m. | #
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I'm glad to see the service on the line has been increased to 180 trains an hour though. That's an increase of what, 1200%?
Pacer | 13.08.17 - 9:15 a.m. | #
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Eastbound at Cannon Street sometimes shows the previous train....
Southern Heights (Light Railway) | 13.08.17 - 9:31 a.m. | #
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Bravo - Another masterpiece from W T McConnagal !
Petras409 | 13.08.17 - 9:32 a.m. | #
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DG is obviously correct saying that the Bow Road westbound information (web and indicator) is not based on the same data as Aldgate East westbound - if it was it would be correct.
But the point remains that (apparently) it COULD be based on the same data - that is, the data to provide proper passenger information does exist - it is just not getting through. Which seems to conflict somewhat with the explanations about flaky data feeds from obsolescent equipment.
dg writes: At Bow Road, the data to provide proper passenger information does not exist. One day. But obviously not yet.
Malcolm | 13.08.17 - 9:54 a.m. | #
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Hahahahaha! Brilliant! You really couldn't make it up!
I think there's a special position at TfL Central especially dedicated to getting DG to tear his hair out!
Cornish Cockney | 13.08.17 - 10:31 a.m. | #
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The westbound NTI is still playing up this morning.
But the feed to the eastbound, which last week seemed to be working fine, has now been switched off.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 13.08.17 - 11:51 a.m. | #
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Where's Martin when you need him?
Gordon | 13.08.17 - 12:15 p.m. | #
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Bring back lightboxes! (At least they can't be *this* bad - they can only show one train!)
Somebody | 13.08.17 - 2:22 p.m. | #
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O minutes can mean 59 seconds! Maybe it is time indicators displayed minutes and seconds.
Sir Biton | 13.08.17 - 6:44 p.m. | #
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I was at Camden Road Overground some months ago when the indicator displayed next 2 trains cancelled. After many people had left to find other routes, the first cancelled train rolled in and continued to Stratford on time.
Tony | 13.08.17 - 9:23 p.m. | #
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@Somebody
You mean the westbound lightbox that could only tell you whether the immediately approaching train was a District line or a Metropolitan [sic] line train, not where it was actually going?
Still an improvement.
dg writes: Before it was removed in 2005, Bow Road's lightbox could tell you the destination of a District line train, or whether it was a Hammersmith & City line train.
Pacer | 13.08.17 - 9:31 p.m. | #
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It was certainly nothing like as exciting as this when I used to commute from Bow Road in 1966.
RogerB | 13.08.17 - 10:40 p.m. | #
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Somebody call?
It appears that installation of RFID tags in the area is taking place. These yellow tags placed between the running rails 25-60 meters apart will enable the trains to operate in ATO (Automatic Train Operation) mode.
These also form part of the upgraded train indicator feeds and Bow Road is sitting in the middle of one of the installation zones.
Bow Road's indicators may be switched off periodically so as not to directly interfere with the signalling or wireless radio communication feeds in the area during the installation and programming of these tags which are individually battery powered and capable of sending numerous commands to communicate with onboard train computers aswell as the control centre.
Normally the preference is to keep the boards running so as to cause minimum disruption but as seen previously at Harrow-On-The-Hill when the RFID tags were installed over 1-2 weeks it skewed the train indicators suddenly giving 27min intervals in the rush hour.
However, once the installation was completed and hooked up to the boards it has been commendably reliable since.
Im surprised to hear that Bow Road is displaying anything at all (still gibberish I know) given that theres not many feeds that it can draw from. The fact that EB board was switched off clearly suggests that a substantial overhaul in communications systems is imminent as this is one of the few occasions to warrant such a move.
Il be sure to pass on any developments on this mess to Diamond Geezer.
Martin | 13.08.17 - 11:20 p.m. | #
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They are installing battery operated tags every 25-60m? How many batteries is that? I hope the system if not dependent on the batteries not running out. Or at least that they are employing a host people to change the batteries when needed.
Andrew | 14.08.17 - 11:22 a.m. | #
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Andrew, the batteries feed a very low current giving them a life span of 7-8 years and even then they are not required to emit signals during normal running because the train computer reads each tag which has an individual serial number and thus can tell where it is. But since they are independently powered they are still referred to as battery powered even though in all likelihood they may be only used a handful of times a year.
Martin | 14.08.17 - 1:54 p.m. | #
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Given the problems I have with Library Books fitted with RFID tags I'm not sure I want to be rattling along at 40mph with nothing but an RFID tag between me and the train in front.
RogerB | 14.08.17 - 8:41 p.m. | #
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RogerB, it's a term that best describes the function without requiring tons of explanation, these tags are of the few visible parts of ATO, each of the 191 S7/8 stocks will require over 2500 modifications to it's software to operate semi-automatically, over 40 miles of cabling per train is to be re-arranged and adapted for greater control by computers, over 100 miles of track will need to modified with track side antennas and upgraded wireless control systems that not only need to interface with the other sub-surface lines but also with the deep-level Piccadilly and Jubilee lines aswell as Network Rail infrastructure used by South West Trains and Chiltern Railways all of which share some operations with the Sub-Surface lines.
There are at least 7 fail safe methods ready to kick in should any faults develop, even by railway standards this project has a lot going for it and it's all based on those humble tags which I can assure you are not available in libraries.
Martin | 14.08.17 - 10:05 p.m. | #
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@Pacer
Yes. At least you knew what train it was.
Also, maybe when the "impossible ordering" happens it actually means a train is 1 min away?
Somebody | 15.08.17 - 5:03 a.m. | #
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I think we should rehabilitate zero as an integer poorly taught at school and unloved.
We finally have a Platform Zero at King's Cross having mislead generations Platform is the first positive integer, it isn't!
KIpling pondered the subtlety and power of the zero'th minute in his greatest poem and said "If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds worth of distance run".
So a train arriving in the 0th minute is fine by me as it's a Kipling train.
Paul SW4 | Homepage | 15.08.17 - 9:00 a.m. | #
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Thank you Martin.
It all sounds seriously expensive, with a life expectancy of how many years?
Is it really cheaper than having a driver?
dg writes: This isn't about driverless trains, Roger, this is about more frequent trains.
RogerB | 15.08.17 - 9:08 p.m. | #
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Tuesday morning - still Check Front of Train Zero rubbish.
Tuesday afternoon - back to how it used to be..
1 Wimbledon via Earl's Court
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Only 1 train.
No minutes.
But no errors.
diamond geezer | Homepage | 16.08.17 - 9:54 a.m. | #
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I came here to tell you it's back to normal again but you've already seen this
Jim Harte | 16.08.17 - 5:09 p.m. | #
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Diamond Geezer, what you have described indicates that some portions of the new systems west of East Ham have been brought online as well as old systems being shown the door.
This weekends engineering works between Plaistow and Dagenham East will hopefully give Bow Rd timings as ATO equipment is primarily installed on sections of track that have been upgraded, remodelled/ or rationalised.
Parts of Barking's complex track layout including it's sidings have already received track renewals and so will be suitable for the installation of some ATO equipment.
Usually the first portion to go from manual signal cabins as seen previously at Harrow-on-the-Hill and Whitechapel is the train describer which hopefully will bring some closure to Bow Rd's defiance to the time continuum.
Martin | 17.08.17 - 8:15 p.m. | #
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