please empty your brain below

Poor old Victoria. Replacing the time-honoured 8's run through Mayfair to the City with the upstart C2, then killing it completely. And now the 73 is going too.
Why so many buses terminating at Oxford Circus and not TCR?.

Is it just me, or does this feel like the planned pedestrianisation of Oxford St has just been thrown out of the window?
Ideally reduce the number of vehicles on the roads, buses would have faster journeys, passenger numbers rise again.
Electric buses only in Oxford Street.

The 73 route keeps getting shorter.
The Stoke Newington end seems to stay the same, but it started life Stoke Newington to Richmond, has even ventured to Kingston and Hampton Court, and for a few years Stoke Newington to Hounslow. In recent years it was reduced to Hammersmith, then Victoria and soon will end at Oxford Circus.
As it is now a Boris Bus I will not be using it anyway! - maybe the unpleasantness of riding in a Boris Bus is the real why passenger numbers are going down in Central London.
452 - has run to Vauxhall since 19th November.

dg writes: Noted, thanks. TfL's review has an October baseline.

The 8's run through Mayfair wasn't that time honoured, it was introduced in 1992 to replace the 25 (although this also served the City), and withdrawn in 2009.

If anything the opening of the Victoria Line did most of the damage back in '68/'69 - the extra buses that used to operate on the 25 Mon-Fri between Victoria and Aldgate were withdrawn, the 127 was cut back to Tottenham Court Road, then in 1970 the 134 was cut back to Warren Street and the 127 was withdrawn.
The 73 is by no means the only route that has got shorter over the years. Of the ones listed here, I can recall when the 6 and the 22 ran all the way to Hackney, the 30 and 14 al the way to Putney, the 8 to Willesden and the 3 to Hampstead Heath.
The 29 also used to run to Victoria.
23: so the plan is to reduce the service along the Strand and Fleet Street? The 23 runs 24 hours.
It appears from the map that the Strand is to lose the 13 as well as the 23.

dg writes: Separate consultation, already closed.
Congratulations on the summary table - far clearer than anything in the TfL material.
surely "unless the public's input to the consultation suggests otherwise" should read "even if the public's input to the consultation suggests otherwise" ?

dg writes: No, they do listen, sometimes.
Of local East End interest...

Aldgate to Mile End: 2 more buses an hour
Mile End to Stratford: 5 fewer buses an hour
Stratford to Ilford: no change
I live a few minutes from Oxford Circus, and I'm really not looking forward to walking to TCR or Marble Arch in order to travel anywhere!
In the TFL blurb it says: "The proposals are forecast to save TfL around £7 million per annum"

Ha Ha, this is what it's really about, less to do with pollution on Oxford Street and more to do with cutting services to save money for Khan's fares freeze.
Am I the only person to think that trams are the answer for Oxford Street? High capacity, high performance, no on-street emissions, low maintenance and they last almost forever. Unlike the Roastmaster, it's also quite realistic to fit beefed-up air conditioning.

Probably far safer as well, considering the high number of accidents involving buses that the ES has reported in recent weeks.

What's not to like?

You do wonder about the long term future of the 137, cutting it back to Marble Arch means it avoids any passenger objective (I assume from the maps first/last stops will be in Park Lane), the 22 will now get you to Oxford Circus instead - threatening the remaining Sloane Square - Marble Arch traffic, Portman Square would have given a better overlap, or instead rerouting the 137 at Marble Arch to Paddington.
Oxford Street could not support a standalone tram network as there is nowhere nearby to put a depot - unlike buses, they can't run off route to get to an out of town maintenance facility. It might have been a good add-on to the Cross-River route (Peckham to Kings Cross, which would have passed Holborn station) but that project was scrapped by the new mayor in 2008.

Re Trams - and the maintenance depot for the trams is where exactly?, Hyde Park Tram Depot anyone?

Could the roof over the ticket hall at Oxford Circus support tram tracks, hate to think of the cost of moving all the other utilities, it would be an expensive duplication of part of the Central Line.

You could have elevated pedestrian walkways at first floor level, more expensive would be to move the vehicle traffic to first floor level with a fully enclosed pedestrian area below, there is enough space at Marble Arch for the ramps, at the other end the ramps could be near Holborn, the depth of the foundations would probably be an issue though.

@ timbo

Easy, peasy... just carry on along Theobalds Road, turn right into Southampton Row and there's a ready made underground depot. The tram tracks are already in place !

Sadly, unless I missed something in the consultation document, there don;t seem to be any plans to improve the hugely overloaded and chaotic southbound bus stop at the Marble Arch end - 20 or so routes stop at a single bus shelter on a narrow pavement and it's usually mayhem, and this will likely make it busier.

dg writes: No bus stop at the western end of Oxford Street is served by more than seven routes, let alone 20.

*Still Anon - indeed, and the recentish and ever growing 452 has drained trade from some of the 137's previously busy Clapham-to-Sloane Square section.
I am surprised you've been as kind as you have in presenting this. The documents are full of errors and clearly have not been properly proof read. The "logic" in arguing for these changes is poor - probably because there is no real justification for them in TfL's evaluation process but TfL have no choice but to do this.

The collapse of patronage on so many services is confirmation of the disastrous legacy of 8 years of wrong headed transport policy in the capital and the ongoing paucity of ideas to make buses work more effectively under the new Mayor's regime. TfL are largely accountable for the mess but you'd never know it from the document. It's as if some extra terrestrial third party landed in London and caused havoc on the road network for 2-3 years and no one could do anything about it.

This is just the first stage of slowly unpicking and dismantling core parts of the bus network in Central London. This is a classic "step by step" approach that will see at least another 2 rounds of routes being thinning out, removed and frequency reductions. A fair number of routes are not in scope of these changes but they will be in scope in the next phases. £7m is a fairly small saving but I reckon that will be multiplied about three fold by the time TfL have finished recasting everything. There will also be a fair old number of NB4Ls looking for new homes too.
If TFL think there is a reduction in bus use and over capacity, I'd like Mr Khan to come and ride on our 2 local services - if they bother to stop through being over full and he could squeeze on.

dg writes: The Bus Review document kicks off with a disturbing map showing that between 2015 and 2016 bus usage dropped in inner London (by 9% in Camden, Southwark and Tower Hamlets) but rose in outer London (by 3% in Croydon and Barking and Dagenham).
Rupert, not sure I'd call the 8's route through Mayfair "time-honoured", it was the 25's route for far far longer! TfL clearly don't have the first clue about how to serve this area though
dg, David

Stop R at the northern end of Park Lane has ten routes and I assume is the one David means - certainly his description fits
Looking at the West End Services Review - why no analysis of the 73/390 changes?, all the others are there.

DG - I think David was referring to the southbound stop in Park Lane, although not served by 20 routes, stop R is served by the 2, 10, 16, 36, 73, 74, 82, 137, 148, 414, 436 and N16, N73, N74 and N137 - the pavement is narrow and it is chaos. [Google maps]

PC - its not TfL gridlocking London with cycle lanes, it was the elected mayor, the concern is that that changes are being made whilst the disruption continues - for example the justification for rerouting the 436 was due to falling demand, yet there are still active ongoing roadworks/diversions in Lewisham (since January 2015), Victoria (since June 2010) and Paddington (since August 2010, with various changes), so there is no baseline to compare traffic levels with 'normal'.
As a pensioner (with an 'out of town' bus pass, not the wonderful thing Londoners having allowing free rides on trains), I often used to get a bus from Paddington to Oxford Street for a bit of shopping. From memory I used the 7, 15 and 23 routes. Now it seems the 15 has already gone, and the 23 will soon be useless leaving just the 7, how long before that gets the chop and Paddington has no direct service to Oxford St.
I notice something missing from all the comments above. Anyone with the view that traveling by bus down Oxford Street is horrendous due to bus congestion.

Well it is and a thining out of buses is long overdue. And if the result is also to save cash for TfL that could be spent on other things, so be it.

Fact is that no bus service should ever be set in stone. The network always needs review. And Oxford Street in particular, is long overdue changes
@Too old to really care

From 2018 your over-60s railcard will allow you to get a ticket direct to Bond Street without getting off at Paddington or using any bus at all.
@Gerry 11:17
The original tram tunnel would have severe shortcomings as a maintenance depot. Barely wide enough for two trams to pass each other, there would be no space to work on any tram that required attention.

In comparison, Waterloo depot on the Waterloo & City line, which has severe operating constraints despite only having five trains (20 cars) to look after, looks positively palatial.

@David/Still anon


dg writes: Deleted for 'reasons'.
You're right, my bête noire is bus stop R on park Lane. It feels like more than ten routes when you're there, but maybe it's because some of them are quite high frequency. Maybe the finer details of how everything will turn around at either end is for a later stage of the planning, but it's worth noting some of the current routes have all sorts of clever waiting areas in quiet side streets along Oxford Street, which will be a headache to replicate at Marble Arch.
Re. Five fewer buses per hour between Mile End and Stratford - I wonder if moving Stratford station into Z2 has contributed to fewer passengers on this section.
Another bus route (the 3) for the Charing Cross Road northbound crawl. It's already awful at all times of day.

If I remember right, the north-west entrance to Tott Ct Rd station won't be restored. The resulting mass of bodies crossing Oxford Street causes jams for east-west traffic, and as result the northbounds miss their turn. It's a horrible bus ride or walk up past Foyles these days.
I do worry that rather than handling the decline in passenger numbers by making the service more attractive, we've instead gone down the route of cutting the service, which in turn makes it less attractive and it all declines from there. What happened to the days of bus priority measures to speed up routes? We seem to have lost a lot of bus lanes over the last few years, and on busy roads they can make a huge difference.
Number 8 used to go from Roman Road to Kilburn, early 90s.
I'm repeating myself, but the tram has got to be Battersea > Vauxhall > Victoria > Marble Arch > Oxford Circus > Euston > King's Cross > York Road >Archway..

Depot space north of King's X or west of Nine Elms..

would pay for itself within a decade..

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