please empty your brain below

We must never forget.
I’m capable of not forgetting without the duplication.
Make Armstice Day a bank holiday. Period.
I think it would be better if remembrance/armistise was only on 11th November.
The idea of it being a public holiday seems a good idea.
I think in the USA November 11th is called Veterans day and is a national holiday.
As an oddity, in my area because we have two war memorials they have on Remembrance Sunday one service at 1st memorial at 11am and a second service at 2nd memorial at 3pm!
What is confusing is all the other silences, football is the worst offender, it devalues everything, by the time we reach November 11th, it's just yet another silence, it's now crept into other areas too, like marking (British) terrorist attacks.
My workplace noted that 11th wouldn't be a work day, and so announced a 2 minute silence on Friday 10th, giving a third opportunity not to forget.
I have to admit, I prefer the government's "it's important to remember" approach. The poppy has become such a politicised weapon lately - I've chosen not to wear one for the last two years because of this.

Not wearing one doesn't affect my remembrance of those who died in order that we should have peace, nor does it affect my hatred of armed conflict.

But the important thing to me is to know that I am aware of the sacrifices that were made, and the belief that nothing like it should ever happen again, not advertising the fact I know this to other people.
An idea I rather liked was that the 'official' remembrance would stay on the Sunday closest but the following Monday (as is the norm) would be a public holiday - a 'national' day for the UK as a whole; a celebration rather than a wake.
What good would a public holiday actually do?

It sounds like an idea for idea’s sake.
I wear my poppy and I will remember. Four minutes of reflection each year is not a long time. I've seen people take longer than that to choose what type of 'posh' coffee they want.
I will never tire of “unnecessary repetition” to remember my ancestors sacrifice.

I will also never tire of wearing a poppy.
When the 11th November falls on a Sunday we get a halving of the remembrance from 4 minutes to 2 minutes.

Quite obviously, Remembrance Sunday needs to move to avoid such a clash occurring again lest the quantity of remembrance is reduced still further.
I got a bit of a jolt on Friday when I heard a loud, distant bang which sounded like it could've been a cannon being fired at [the Barracks at] Woolwich.
A check of my watch confirmed the time was indeed 11:00, but it took a moment or two to figure that - if that had been what it was - it had been 24 hours early.
Over here in BE Nov 11th is a national holiday so offices, schools and pretty much every shop is closed.

Therefore the day has a distinct 'peacefulness' and sense of 'pause' which I think makes it rather effective, even more so when it falls on a weekday.
King's Cross station held a two minute silence on Friday 10th at 11am, because weekends aren't proper working days.

Greenwich council staff observed a two minute silence on Friday 10th at 11am, because they wouldn't be at work over the weekend.

West Ham Football Club held a minute's silence on Saturday 4th, because they don't have any matches this weekend.

It's all got a bit "We're not around on Sunday, when shall we hold ours?", rather then a unifying moment of national commemoration.
If Remembrance Day is to remain relevance it needs to shift focus from the World Wars towards more recent conflicts. No one alive remembers WW1 alive, and if you remember WW2 you are in your mid-Seventies at least.
By chance I just happen to be in Coventry this weekend, and in Warwick yesterday afternoon.

I was walking by the war memorial there and what struck me most were not the wreaths but the plethora of large road closure notices on each and every lamppost - one for Saturday and one for Sunday.

Bizarre, I thought. Now I know why. Thanks DG for this most interesting and informative post.
A bit ironic really, that the Government didn't want to slow down the war effort to think about the War to End All Wars!

Is the wearing of poppies as an advertisement such a bad thing if it means that the symbol reaches those perhaps not previously aware, such as young children, or encourages someone to donate to the appeal for the first time?

Of course many people can and do remember without any external impetus, but I think we would do ourselves as a nation a huge disservice without poppies to focus the national attention.
Definitely a lot of silences enforced upon football fans; I particularly remember the one for five murdered prostitutes in Ipswich.
The wording of expressions of remembrance seems to have become more inclusive during the last few years. Yes, we still remember those who died in WW1 and WW2. But other victims of armed conflict and of terrorism are also brought in. Quite rightly, in my opinion.

Within reason, I see no harm in doubling or tripling the occasion. What with time-shifting, recording, and more realisation that worldwide acts at 11 a.m. are not simultaneous, the event can be spread out and thereby perhaps gain impact, rather than losing it.

Similarly with other silences at football matches and elsewhere. There is plenty of stuff around to be thoughtful about.
If the whole thing doesn't change it will become less and less relevant to everyone. We are already seeing the lessons of WW2 being forgotten. It will only continue.

Being seen to remember is now certainly more important than actually remembering
Liverpool FC held their minute's silence on October 28 as it was their last Premier League home game before 11 November. That seems absurd to me.

Perhaps it's an age thing, coupled to a personal connection to proceedings, but I preferred a single national moment of reflection based around the Cenotaph ceremony on Remembrance Sunday. I felt having a single event gave it a weight and significance that has got diluted.
@John at 7:21 -- "Happy Veteran's Day" someone from the US tweeted this morning. Just weird if it weren't actually offensive.

@Roger" at 9:43 -- In the 1970s I worked in Woolwich and multi-gun salutes for royal birthdays and other events were remarkably common.
I was at the Remembrance Sunday event in Richmond this morning which is under the noisy southern flight path into Heathrow.
There were no planes flying past during the 2 minute silence. Does anyone know if this was good fortune or had been planned?
For many, there is no common experience, it's something that happened to someone else.

There is a difference between live UK media (near 100% poppy) and what you see around London (not much poppy), as fewer and fewer people have had any direct contact with either war or the military (most of the civilian population had direct involvement with WWII (bombing, manufacturing munitions, wardens, home guard), many also had relatives who served that they knew), there seems more 'establishment' effort to make a point of marking it.

The best example of poppy compliance is select committees, politicians have poppies, the ones giving evidence have poppies, but very often there is not a poppy is to be seen amongst those occupying the rows of seats behind those giving evidence.
1100 on the 11th day of the 11th month (which should be a national holiday) - and that should be it.

I too suffer from grief fatigue. the minute of silence is in danger of being devalued -- some may say it already has been.
In Beckenham, the procession, and those who come to watch, have both grown in recent years. More wreaths are laid - not just ex-servicemen and British Legion, but local worthies, scouts and guides, police, firemen, even political parties, freemasons and funeral directors. Where once there was one clergyman, now there are three.

The Beckenham War Memorial stands in the middle of a traffic roundabout. At 10.30 the police close all the feeder roads and traffic is diverted.
This morning, in the middle of the 2 Minutes Silence, a car driver, frustrated because he could not get through, sounded his horn long and loud before he turned and went. Seconds later, a police car had swung round and was in pursuit. 'Uncomfortable' would probably best describe the ensuing interview!
I fail to see how having two silences is a dilution; surely it's a doubling?

A bank or national holiday in November would soon be hijacked for commercial gain, and would simply turn into a prolonged pre-Christmas buying session.

Black 11th reductions anyone..?
Nobody going to rise to the "1-in-7 quirk" bait then?

TfL offices had a slightly bizarre piece of corporate hand-wringing on Friday with a minute's silence for the victims of the Croydon tram derailment, which rather confused things.
This is the first I've heard about some organisations holding an extra one just so they can be seen to be doing it, and that just seems downright wrong to me, as if they're co-opting it for their organisation rather than it being a national thing that everyone participates in wherever they are and whatever they're doing at the time. Or is it the idea that if it falls on a weekend, it's somehow devalued by not having to stop work to observe it? I hate the way it's become something ostentations (jewelled and ever larger poppies etc) that you have to be seen to be doing, rather than a collective moment of private reflection. So I don't participate at all and I try to be alone at 1100 so as not to get drawn into all that.

Oh, and November 11th is my son's birthday!
In Canada, ceremonies and 2 minutes of silence are held at 11:00 on 11/11 only. Of course, since Canada spreads over 6 time zones, that means that there are 6 x 11:00. I've forgotten exactly when, but sometime in the last 15 years, at the end of the ceremony at the national memorial in Ottawa, people spontaneously started leaving their poppies on the tomb of the unknown soldier. This practice has spread across the country and is very moving.

P.S. We also remember the dead of more recent wars - Korea, Afghanistan, etc. - and Canadian UN peacekeepers.
Like Sarah I prefer (when at work with / near people I know) to walk away somewhere to be alone for the silence. I can then reflect alone rather than be too much ‘part of’ something (where I feel a little self-conscious), although I don’t object to being part of the wider community’s / nation’s period of remembrance.

For the first time this year I found myself requesting observance of the silence, when I realised that a mental health support group I run (moved from its normal date by a week) would span 1100 on Saturday.
I am entirely happy to give up 2 minutes once a year if 11 November happens to be a work day.

But I can also see why it makes organisational sense for the date of the main public ceremony to be a moveable feast, at a weekend, like Easter. (In some ways, Christmas and New Years Day are the odd ones out, being fixed dates in the calendar).

As I understand it, a temporary wood and plaster version of the Cenotaph was installed in Whitehall for a victory parade / peace parade in June 1919. It struck a chord, and it was quickly decided to make it permanent. I believe the temporary version was still in position by the time of the first Armistice observance on 11 November 1919, and the permanent version had replaced for the following year.

The attendance at my local war memorial has been getting gradually larger in recent years. I wonder if the crowds will remain when we get past the centenary.
Someone in an earlier comment pointed that the 11th of November is referred to as Veteran's Day in the US. This is true; HOWEVER, if Nov 11th falls on a Saturday, Veteran's Day is observed the Friday prior, and if Nov. 11th is on a Sunday Veteran's Day is observed on the Monday.

This means that some years the holiday falls on the day of, but like this year we observed it on the Friday rather than the Saturday. Many of the vets I spoke to consider the Saturday Veteran's day, despite activities coming to a halt at my Uni on the Friday and resuming on Saturday, business as usual. It almost dilutes the holiday to be about taking a day off out of the week rather than honoring the history behind the day.
My workplace only sends emails requesting observance of the 2 minutes' silence if it falls on a weekday; the office-dwellers apparently leaving us operational staff who may be working over a weekend the choice of whether or not we never forget.
That's not quite right. Veteran's Day always takes place on the 11th (or at least it used to). The public holiday associated with it moves, but the ceremonies and memorials still take place on the 11th.

I've always found Remembrance Sunday quite strange. Almost every other country that observes the Armistice memorial sticks with the 11th. The 11th hour of the 13th day of the 11th month doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

And I noticed Poppytide was dialled down a notch this year. I think there was some serious public kickback over the poppy fascism of the past few years.
Just noticed RogerP's query about the planes into Heathrow.

Yes, they were stopped.

This nice blog post explains how/why.

https://nats.aero/blog/2017/11/marking-remembrance-sunday-armistice-day/
There is an important difference between the significance of November 11th in the UK and the US.

November 11th in the USA is Veterans' Day. As its name implies, it relates to people who have retired from military service, unlike in the UK where Remembrance Day commemorates those who died on active service.

The US equivalent of the UK's Remembrance Day is Memorial Day, which is in May.
My football team commemorates the fallen who served and were also ex-players by a minute's silence at the last home game before 11 November. I see no reason to stop this just to fit into DG's narrative.
A cut'n'paste snippet (not mine) from a fb page covering Chislehurst: "Remembrance Sunday at Chislehurst War Memorial. The numbers increase each year, and several hundred people turn up each time, including the bikers' Meridian Chapter who also lay a wreath. I was especially interested to see a wreath from the Monte Cassino Society as my late father fought there"
It includes a photo, which seems to dispel and doubts over whether attendance actually is increasing. It is










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