please empty your brain below

I find the infirmation on electronic reservations just fine. It tells you about the status of the seat at that time - if it is reserved from a future calling point they usually say 'Available until xxx'.

Not all tickets become useless without a reservation, only advance tickets must be used on a specific train. Online booking systems insist on it though, so often I am forced to make a reservation that I won't use.
2) Or you may just board the train using the door in front of you, and work out your coach once on board.
I use my reserved seat as a fall back - like (I suspect) many of the poeple who should be sitting in those empty reserved seats.

Once the train has left the station I sit in any empty seat that takes my fancy, knowing I can always go back to my reserved (but always less desireable) seat if the train mysteriously fills.

Of course, on intercity trains in France ALL seats have to be reserved - but I still use the same technique.

I'm a rebel, me....
Here's another. You have to decide whether to opt for the quiet coach. As with reservations but worse, this is not policed, so in the quiet coach, when someone uses their phone obtrusively, you have the dilemma of whether to risk unpleasantness by asking them to stop. In a regular coach, you have more noise but less stress.
The electronic systems on Virgin are not only capable of showing when a seat is free from, but they're also able to say the passenger name. I've seen it every now - my own name was up there once - but I have absolutely no idea how it happened.

As for the cheap coach - this could be sorted out by train companies implementing a system where you can select your own seat online. They have this in Ireland, and I /think/ CrossCountry do. Why no one else does, I've no idea. Well, I can guess...

Oh and my favourite seat reservation? The one that comes out of the machine as Coach *, Seat ** - in other words, they've insisted you have one but there's no seat reservations on the train...


Brendan - if you don't want a seat reservation, try the East Coast site as they offer you the choice for every journey. It's quite easy to opt out of them. East Coast's site will also tell you which seats they're booking for you and it is - in a very roundabout way - possible to retry for a new set.
Double seats are usually referred to as "airline style" in the booking system.
Yet another reason – sometimes you end up in the quiet coach without having requested it. Mostly, it seems, when you need to do some work on your laptop, you're expecting a couple of important phone calls, and the rest of the train's rammed. So you spend half your journey dashing to the bit between compartments so you can make and take calls, annoying your fellow passengers only marginally less than by using your phone.
Many of the train companies abroad let you choose your seat – train travel guru The Man In Seat 61 (Google him) is, as you'd expect from the name, a stickler for having the correct seat, and his website has plenty of useful tips about tweaking the reservations system to achieve that, if at all possible.
My pet hate is Cross Country's much lauded Ten Minute Reservation system. This means that once the train is 'on the go', it is still possible for new passengers to reserve a seat.

On one journey between Plymouth and Bristol, I was bumped out of my seats TWICE. Although the seat was vacant when I parked my bum on it, a new passenger boarded, having invoked the Ten Minute rule and booked MY seat. For it to happen twice on the same journey was hideous. It made me wish that I had taken up my own booking in an inferior seat.

I have written to Cross Country to complain about this aspect of their new system. Predictably, I never had a response, not so much as an acknowledgement. Miserable!
The last time I used a long distance train I was astounded at the volume of reserved seats. I don't travel very often these days so the march of the Advance ticket has clearly created this nonsense of virtually every seat appearing booked and yet rarely all they all used (as you note).

If you're a "on the spur of a moment" traveller then you're disadvantaged by paying a ridiculous fare *and* probably being unable to find a spare seat in the forest of reservations. So much for the "turn up and go" railway. I do wonder if we are being slowly conditioned by the railway companies to accept reservation as the norm thereby allowing them to impose "reservation only" trains? This would instantly banish the concept of "overcrowded" long distance trains meaning wonderful performance statistics! It might also mean people couldn't commute from Reading to Paddington on fast trains every day but that's a mere technicality.
2 weeks ago I took the train from London to Alicante in Spain.
3 reservations were needed.
1st reservation Eurostar to Paris Gare du Nord. Train quite full so reservation of seat was useful.
Get the Metro RER from Gare du Nord to Gare du Lyon.

2nd reservation Gare Du Lyon to Barcelona. That was fun as I nearly missed the TGV train and jumped into coach 1, I should have been in coach 14, so at the first stop, some 2 hours later I had a long run to along the platform change carrages. the rain was not full and there were spare seats, but I still needed to get to the other end of the train as not all of the train went as far as Barcelona!

3rd reservation, Barcelona Sants station to Alicante. A slow journey this section of the trip as the AVE Spanish High speed train does not run on this route yet. Train started full but soon emptied at the many stops, I think very few stayed on the train for the over 6 hours to Alicante.

I am now making reservationss to return to London!, probably by air.
I stopped reserving seats on Virgin journeys because three times in a row I was put in the "wall seat" (the windowless window seat) when specifically requesting a window seat.

I have also experienced all reservations being crammed into the same crowded car with the rest of the train left empty and much more pleasant. It's a shame they can't get this right as you should be better, not worse, off for reserving.
I would love to do some spur-of-the-moment day trips by train, but the whole system from pre-booking to different companies is so complicated I just don't know where to begin. :(
@Andrew helpful hint about East Coast, thanks, will be useful for personal journeys. My company uses a corpirate travel agent using Evoli, which does insist on reservations which is a pain.
British Rail didn't always get it right in the days before computerised reservations.

In 1974 our Scout troop had our summer camp in the Highlands, travelling there and back by train.

The outward journey went very well - reserved coach, luggage sent on by parcels train, the train made an extra stop at Harrow & Wealdstone to pick us up, our luggage was there waiting for us at Pitlochry.

The return journey didn't go too well. The reservation tickets had been made out as from Inverness! Apparently the train was held for some time at Inverness waiting for us, and other passengers were allowed to take our compartments. We landed up with some of us crammed into overcrowded compartments and others in the luggage van or in the corridors. Fortunately the train did make our special stop at Harrow, and our luggage arrived OK.

IIRC we got a full refund from BR.
Window doesn't literally mean window, it just means 'not aisle'. I prefer aisle myself, but I do wish it was possible to specify 'not table' rather than just not specify table and hope for the best. On advance tickets it really is just the train you're booked on; I have never been, or seen anyone, challenged for being in the wrong seat. If my reserved seat turns out to be a table I will sit elsewhere if possible, and if they're all reserved I'll try and do a swap with someone.
Whew! And, I thought it was just me. I could have written your blog today. I live in the US and holiday annually in the UK. I use public transportation to travel around England (mainly), Scotland, and Wales. I have taken a lot of train trips since 1980, my first trip over. I have experienced every situation you have described here. And, I thought it was just me not able to figure out how the reservation system works. I will feel less like an outsider going forward.
Next trip 20 May to 5 June this year, and I am so looking forward to it!
I agree DG, the whole ticketing system is beyond a farce.

You don't mention the following associated issues -
1) People who booked months ahead and paid peanuts get to sit in a seat whilst people who turn up at the station and pay several hundred pounds have to stand, often crammed in to a vestibule.
2) There's no limit on the number of people that can actually board a train, or the number of tickets that can be sold with the intention of using them on a single train. A train can be packed to the rafters from Kings Cross whilst a ticket clerk up the line in Grantham is still merrily selling tickets to people intent on boarding it. Whether those people manage to board or not they're going to be disappointed and feel ripped off. Equally no-one ever knows if the next train running an hour or two later is going to be empty or even worse. And the overcrowded train makes for a bad experience for everyone.


The French TGV system is better. If you want to swap your train for another you can change your ticket, even after the train is gone - French ticket machines will even ingest your old ticket and print you a new one for this purpose.

Technology could and should provide a more equitable long distance ticketing system which -
- Ensures trains are not overcrowded
- Provides a discount to a limited number of people who choose to stand
- Allows deeper discounts on trains which would otherwise run with empty seats, ie better yield
- Provides a straightforward and financially fair means to change to a different train if circumstances change.
It's kind of good that the system is loosely policed though, because otherwise you'd have inspectors dealing out punishments for trivial offences such moving to a non-reserved seat or swapping with somebody else in your group.
In Sweden you have to produce ID to buy a reserved ticket on long-distance services, as there has been some kind of black market in them in recent years.
For the earlier mentioned trip I made London to Alicante I did all the booking with Voyages SNCF, the French train company, used to be called Rail Europe.
This was convenient for printing the tickets at home before leaving.
However at Barcelona Sants I had booked for the 11.00am train to Alicante, as I was at the station at 9.15am and there was a train at 10.00am and I tried to change my ticket for the earlier train.
It seems I could have done had I booked the ticket direct with RENFE (the Spanish train company) but because I had booked it via an agency (Voyages SNCF)they would not exchange it!. Yet the price was the same however booked.
I'm afraid I often don't use my reserved seat. If I don't like it or it's at the further end of the train and I'm short of time, I sit where I like (unless it's reserved). It's never been checked - and anyway, I've so often had someone in my reserved seat that it's easier not to make a fuss, unless the train is already full.
Oh dear. This is all a little bit over the top isn't it? Minor irritants to be sure (especially those window seats) but most of the time these things work OK (or can be worked around in some of the ways people mention). Hardly justifies such a departure from your normally measured language does it DG? Give me the choice of a long distance rail trip in the UK versus a budget airline flight and the rail trip hassles are a breeze.
I do a lot of train trips and come up against most of the problems. The "wall" seat seems to be a particular problem on Virgin Trains, it always seems to be my reserved seat.

I always book through East Coast trains though, even if I am not travelling on them, as you do get a choice of window or aisle, table or airline seat and I think the interface is better. Better still if you are booking their trains although you get a seat booked you can change it, and there is a seating plan of each coach so you can choose your seat. I now have my favourite seat I always try to book :-)

Regarding 11 if I find a seat reserved but the person has not arrived (for example reserved from a station earlier in the journey) then I just sit there and assume they have not turned up. This is where those companies using the paper coupon is better because it shows all the reservations for that seat, so you can easily see if you are likely to get turfed out of it or not. The electronic system on Virgin Trains is not so good because it usually just says the seat is reserved but not where from.
Like
>There's no limit on the number of people that can actually board a train.

While this can make for uncomfortable journeys, compulsory reservations can leave one unable to travel by intercity train for days on end. Sometimes you just need to get somewhere, and I'd rather stand for two hours on an overcrowded intercity than sit all day on a series of stopping trains or wait a week.
One more complaint to add to the list - I recently booked advance tickets from Sutton to the West country. While the long distance train from Paddington has the usual obligatory reservation nowhere is it made clear if the suggested train from Sutton is obligatory or if I'm free to choose my own time and route to get across London.
On being sat next to a wall on Virgin trains, that's why they've introduced the 'view' tick-box in the reservation section. You can also find seat maps for Virgin trains at http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/seating-plan.pdf - see how 'limited/no view' seats are highlighted in blue. There are a lot of them on Pendolinos!

When booking, choose your seat options, click through to the payment stage of the booking (where it tells you the seats it's allocated you) and check them against the PDF. If you don't like them, go back a step in the process and fiddle with your options until you get a better result. Easy enough when you know how.
Of course, there's no actual rule to say you have to sit in your reserved seat, hence why the ticket inspectors/whatever they're called this week take little to no notice of them.

I travelled with Virgin on 4 different services this Bank Holiday weekend gone - on 2 of them I'd bought a walk-up ticket so didn't have a reservation - the outward wasn't busy so I found an available seat easily, but on the return the train was very busy and all the empty seats had the unhelpfully vague "Reserved" on the screens. I sat in one anyway and nobody came to claim it.

I think the issue with just showing Reserved is not knowing how safe you are to assume the seat's not in use. If it's reserved from the station you've just got on at, then you're more likely to be turfed out than if it's from one several stations back that's obviously not being used. Similarly if you know you're getting off before the start of the reservation.
I agree with Paul, people who book months ahead and pay a low price get a seat.Turn up and go you pay a lot of money and may stand.
I turned up in Edinburgh a few years ago and bought a ticket to travel that day to London. It was over £100 and I stood for most of the journey.
Some seats should be kept for turn up and go passengers who pay a lot more, and should be entitled to a seat.
As of yet they do not allow standing on airlines but who knows one day!
Related to (6), the fact that you can ask for Quiet Coach, but you can't ask for Not Quiet Coach. I want to be able to play music/watch something on my phone or laptop at a considerate headphone volume, answer my phone if it goes, and/or talk to my companion, if I have one.
I do not want to be stared at censoriously by all and sundry, or spend the journey with my fingers in my ears because of some Mumsnet warrior who has decided to sit in the Quiet Coach because her little darlings shouldn't be disturbed while ignoring the fact that they are disturbing everyone else and isn't this country SO UNCHILDFRIENDLY!
With the windowless window seat thing, I believe one of the booking systems has "View" as a flag. This permits a seat with a real window. There is also the ability to select airline or table seats.

Maybe DG needs to use one of the sites that uses the Atos booking engine?
'Some seats should be kept for turn up and go passengers who pay a lot more, and should be entitled to a seat. '

They often do. It's just they then get filled up. Don't forget for many routes you might be going say Kings Cross to Glasgow but a lot more people will be going on shorter routes, York to Newcastle etc.
When you book online on many systems you will automatically get a reservation. I book for work and you HAVE to choose a specific seat even if you are buying a off-peak/peak ticket which entitles you to any seat available.

But I would agree that the biggest pain in the arse is that there is no proper enforcement of the reservation systems. Many a time I have seen people get on at Peterborough and found people in their reserved seats who after having been sat down for an hour refuse to move. Now they chose those seats and they are their seats, by then most other seats had been taken. It needs enforcing properly.
This is true on whichever train company you are travelling on. I've seen and had major issues with East Coast and Virgin. But then gone to Nottingham with great digital displays which told you exactly which ones you could sit in.

It is NOT difficult. A reserved seat is a reserved seat until a few minutes after leaving. If you are 10 minutes down the line they are not coming and you can sit in that seat, but look to see who might be getting on later in the journey.










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