please empty your brain below
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I'm old enough to remember when Hay's Galleria was Hay's Wharf.
Steve | 15.01.23 - 8:30 a.m. | #
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You don't explain that St James's Park tube station was called St James' Park until 1951 and one of the roundels on the eastbound platform, as shown in your photo, still has the old version.
dg writes: scan the post more carefully
davews | 15.01.23 - 8:31 a.m. | #
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I recommend the Apostrophe Protection Society (apostrophe.org.uk) for those interested in such things.
Tim W. | 15.01.23 - 8:31 a.m. | #
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St Paul's Cray... Is the apostrophe used to indicate the missing letters "inu"? Ah, confirmed after reading the wikipedia article.
Nick K | 15.01.23 - 8:41 a.m. | #
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The convention here now in Australia, which I think is better, is to not use apostrophes for place names and locations. A little history may be lost, but not too much. Interestingly people constantly wonder whey our Princess' Theatre has the plural apostrophe placement but although I've forgotten why, it is correct.
Andrew | Homepage | 15.01.23 - 8:44 a.m. | #
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davews - Did they read the Oxford University Press style guide in the meantime?
(it states (or at least it did in the 1990s) that names with one syllable should have an additional 's' after the possessive apostrophe, but names with more than one syllable should not, which actually works when you say them out loud)
Sarah | 15.01.23 - 8:44 a.m. | #
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And not for example the possessives buried in the modern English names for the kings’s town, or the hound’s barrow, or Leof’s settlement, or Waendel’s enclosure (locations whose names were originally formed using a Saxon genitive ending of “-es” before Middle English adopted the French apostrophe, and without a diversion via the peculiar “his genitive” of the late 16th and early 17th century, such as “St James his park”).
Andrew | 15.01.23 - 8:54 a.m. | #
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Why did Collier's Wood lose its in 1987?
dg writes: see ‘anorak level tube apostrophe history‘
Ian | 15.01.23 - 9:05 a.m. | #
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I didn't know about Collier(')s Wood. Did it have an apostrophe on the station roundels til '87?
daveid76 | 15.01.23 - 9:33 a.m. | #
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Strangely next to St Paul’s Cray is St Mary Cray. Wonder why she didn’t get an apostrophe and a possessive s
Brian | 15.01.23 - 9:37 a.m. | #
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And no longer Waterstone’s either.
Philip Downer | 15.01.23 - 9:52 a.m. | #
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The tube calls at Shepherd's Bush, the bus terminates at Shepherds Bush, bus timetables show either version depending on year.
A-Z and bus maps show Joydens Wood, Pratts Bottom, Shooters Hill, St Pauls Cray.
St. James Street is served by St. James's Street according to my old A-Z.
Still Anon | 15.01.23 - 9:59 a.m. | #
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Thomas Lord had only moved to his second ground in 1809. The current site was first used in 1814.
dg writes: tweaked, thanks.
ap | 15.01.23 - 10:15 a.m. | #
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Derivation of Shooter’s / Shooters Hill a bit more basic. Geographically a watershed made up with layers of sands and gravels and London clay. Springs occur as rainwater difficult to permeate the London Clay. These springs are high in Epsom Salts - a laxative. Taking a draught of this spring water results in a serious Case of ‘ the sh*ts’.
dg writes: etymological fiction.
Roger Norrington | 15.01.23 - 10:16 a.m. | #
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Queenstown Road overground was known as Queen's Road, Battersea in my day (the 1970s). Odd though, as the road it was on eas certainly Queenstown Road at that stage.
cau1khead | 15.01.23 - 10:47 a.m. | #
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The sole St James’ Park roundel is one of those London oddities I like to share with anyone who’s interested via your 2013 post.
Andrew’s post reminded me of being in Australia 20 years ago and being amazed how apostrophes had been dropped from directional road signs.
Meanwhile, in Beckenham the road that runs along the side of St George’s parish church is signposted as St Georges Road but Streetmap and Google maps show it as St George’s Road.
chunderwagon | 15.01.23 - 10:54 a.m. | #
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St. Mary Cray is a possessive. As in other Germanic languages (esp. German) the feminine form didn't add -s in the genitive. Der Mann - des Mannes; die Frau - der Frau.
Same goes for Lady Day, not Lady's Day
Bruce Perkins | 15.01.23 - 11:33 a.m. | #
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Correcting an apostrophe seems to bring some joy to pedants (who don't necessarily agree on the 'rules'), but rare that meaning is an less clear when an apostrophe is misused or unused...or lost.
Rod | 15.01.23 - 12:01 p.m. | #
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You didn’t mention… Lloyd’s of London, but not Lloyds Bank.
Sprout Eater | 15.01.23 - 12:15 p.m. | #
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If we venture into clubland we find Boodle's and White's
Jonathan Wadman | 15.01.23 - 12:22 p.m. | #
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Bruce: "die Frau - der Frau" is correct, "the house of Erica" translates to "das Haus von Erika", but also "Erikas Haus". No apostrophe, but genitive "s" in german.
Michael Krause | 15.01.23 - 12:56 p.m. | #
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As a child watching the express trains leaving Edinburgh Waverley for King's Cross I often wondered why he was cross.
Peter | 15.01.23 - 3:44 p.m. | #
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With handwriting and physical type, the very genuine distinction between a single quote and an apostrophe is obvious. However, it feels that the distinction has blurred with the move to typewriters and computers, although it is still nominally there for codes such as Unicode and HTML (and ASCII and EBCDIC).
DavidC | 15.01.23 - 10:09 p.m. | #
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It's a useful difference that Lord's the cricket ground has an apostrophe, whereas Lords as in the House of Lords doesn't.
Mikey C | 15.01.23 - 11:38 p.m. | #
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Shooter’s Hill must be named after one only shooter and not plural as you suggest.
Val | 16.01.23 - 6:38 a.m. | #
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iBus uses St James's Street Station for St James Srreet station and the TfL website can't make its mind up on the matter. Pleased to hear the road was (at least at some point) St James's Street.
Michael T | 16.01.23 - 10:19 a.m. | #
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