please empty your brain below
Yes we will have an orbital railway in the sense that if you arbitarily connect up different services and change a few times you could actually get back to where you started by orbiting around central London. But by 2010 you will be able to do that without this new link although not quite as directly. To the user it is not particulary significant that you will be able to this by only travelling on London Overground trains.

The orbital railway idea has been overplayed and is misleading. If they ever produce a Clapham Junction - Clapham Junction service via North London without changing trains then I think they can legitimately call it an orbital service.

Also bear in mind this thing was not rushed through to benefit the local population as such. It was done because it was realised (rather belatedly it seems) that there was insufficient terminal capacity at London Bridge during Thameslink reconstruction and they needed to divert the South London line trains elsewhere.

Pedantic of Purley | 14.02.09 - 8:56 a.m. | #

For someone not interested in today thanks for the cards!!

42 | 14.02.09 - 9:16 a.m. | #

The Surrey Canal Road bridge photo you've linked to is carries the main East London Line to New Cross/New Cross Gate. The phase 2 route branches off north of the road, so will cross on its own bridge.

Currently there's a light blue footbridge on the site, but I can't find a photo offhand.

Graham | Homepage | 14.02.09 - 9:25 a.m. | #

There would be plenty of terminal capacity at London Bridge if the DfT hadn't allowed Railtrack/Network Rail* to sell off the space formerly occupied by the Red Star parcel depot to the developers of the Shard (London Bridge Tower) in return for a financial contribution to the half-baked reconstruction plans for the station.

If you look at an aerial plan, you realise that the massive vehicle ramp to the parcels depot occupies space that used to be part of the LB&SCR trainshed. Platforms 13-16 were once twice their current length, and could have been reconstucted at mininal cost.

* not sure of the exact timing of the sale - it possibly took place while Railtrack was in receivership?

Lang Rabbie | 14.02.09 - 12:56 p.m. | #

I've done a nice "London Overground" as an outer circle diagram...

http://bnb.bpweb.net/londonoverground

dg writes: Cheers, I've now linked to your map from the main post.

Briantist | Homepage | 14.02.09 - 4:33 p.m. | #

Well, at least it'll make Central London more accessible to those in Peckham and Croydon, but it's probably not much good to us North Londoners, unless we have a need to go to Clapham.

Andrewh | 14.02.09 - 6:39 p.m. | #

I'm not sure that I want to visit London again in the near future. Can I get to North London from St Pancras easily - and without changing?

zed | Homepage | 14.02.09 - 7:22 p.m. | #

Hi Briantist,

I really like your London Overground diagram, and I would like to point out some spelling corrections if that's OK (I could not find a contact e-mail on your website):

Leyton Midland Road
Leytonstone High Road
South Tottenham
Carpenders Park
Finchley Road and Frognal
Harlesden
Shepherd's Bush
Brockley

Anonymous | 14.02.09 - 11:45 p.m. | #

Lang: The Shard lease was signed in last 2007, so firmly under Network Rail. It involves only a very small corner of the area you describe - about the westernmost 20m, and even then, only the south half. Network Rail still expect to re-extend them in future. Basically the whole story is complete bollocks, although various local politicians etc continue to peddle it.

And the problem is number of platforms, not length. Re-extending them won't help them reverse more trains.

Graham | Homepage | 15.02.09 - 1:36 a.m. | #

Anonymous: OK, thanks for pointing those out and make corrections.

Briantist | Homepage | 15.02.09 - 10:33 a.m. | #

To be fair, there will be provision for Loughborough Junction, Surrey Canal Road and even Brixton. All of these could still be added on quite easily; some of them more likely to actualy be built than others as in Brixton the trains are on a very high viaduct, for example.
They're finishing this phase by 2012, which really is pretty quick. In a lot of cases, if you can't get the whole budget at once, it's better to split up the project and build the rest later.

sweek | 15.02.09 - 11:44 a.m. | #

Does aybody know which side of clapham junction will be the termination for the East london line.Will it be the east side, platforms 16 and 17 as used by the East Croydon - Watford junction trains.Or will it be platform 2 and maybe a reopened platform 1, on the west side as used by clapham junction - willesdon junction trains?

Bruce | 15.02.09 - 1:30 p.m. | #

Platform 2 (or 1). Platforms 16/17 are connected directly to the West London Line at the north/east end and are physically inaccessible from Wandsworth Road.

Most of 3-15 *are* physically reachable form Wandsworth Road, but they lie on through main lines and would be terrible places to terminate a train. So 2 (or 1) is the only option.

Graham | Homepage | 15.02.09 - 2:56 p.m. | #

Unless they've moved Clapham Junction station recently without telling me, then ELL phase two very definitely *will* be stopping in Battersea.

Clapham Junction, confusingly, is not in Clapham, but in Battersea.

Geoff | Homepage | 15.02.09 - 9:00 p.m. | #

Ooh hurrah - now us Dalstonites will be able to get to Clapham.

Not that I generally need to go there, but you never know.....

Cal | Homepage | 16.02.09 - 10:41 a.m. | #

Also @ Lang: the shortage of capacity at LB is only *while the TL works are taking place*. Turning down a shedload of cash to fund the redevelopment so that you can avoid mild temporary inconvenience would officially class as Not Clever.

john b | Homepage | 18.02.09 - 12:37 p.m. | #











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