please empty your brain below
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I really want you to have researched this post from your home using nothing but Google Maps and Streetview. Please tell me you didn't actually visit all these places.
dg writes: I visited all these places. A good geographer always does a field trip.
Dave Ogden | 24.11.17 - 7:07 a.m. | #
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Hounslow still has a library, it has moved temporarily to the Civic centre. The present Civic centre is due to be demolished shortly as a new Civic centre is being built at the "Bell" end of the town. When that opens the library will be there and back in the town centre.
Behind the shops opposite the Treaty Centre a new shopping centre is being built complete with the usual cafes, cinemas etc. Only Asda is open on this site so far. In a few years time there will be much change in Hounslow's town centre.
John | 24.11.17 - 7:18 a.m. | #
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Muswell Hill is a different shopping experience to Harold Hill, and regardless of what the stats say, Holloway isn't on a par with the rest of the places on the list.
Shepherds Bush appears twice, both as a metropolitan and district centre, why not just say Westfield and Shepherds Bush Green.
dg writes: Shepherds Bush appears once.
Still anon | 24.11.17 - 7:55 a.m. | #
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Looking at the plan Southwark is under represented. I would have thought Walworth Road/East street was a bit more than 'district' especially as two of the shops once appeared in a TFL guide. But what do I know?
Richard | Homepage | 24.11.17 - 8:44 a.m. | #
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Maybe Kingston to add to the major centres list.
dg writes: It's already a Metropolitan Centre.
John | 24.11.17 - 8:47 a.m. | #
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In case anyone missed the link, here's the official list, last updated in 2016.
https://www.london.gov.uk/files/the_london_plan_malp_march_2016/annex_2/londons_town_centre_network.pdf
diamond geezer | Homepage | 24.11.17 - 9:06 a.m. | #
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What on earth are "comparison goods"?
Andrew | 24.11.17 - 9:08 a.m. | #
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DG - I was looking at the 151 link in section 4, although that's not to the official site.
Still anon | 24.11.17 - 9:20 a.m. | #
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@John (7.18am) I'm glad to hear the library hasn't been closed and is only at the Civic Centre temporarily.
I lived in Hounslow during the building of the Treaty Centre and remember the library as being excellent, with a very good local history research area.
Cornish Cockney | 24.11.17 - 9:48 a.m. | #
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I'm still laughing at 'Bell end of town' from the second comment.
Puerile commenter | 24.11.17 - 10:33 a.m. | #
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re a comment above; I can't see Holloway in any of the lists, but think it would currently be a Major centre. In the 60s it might have been a Metropolitan centre, it then had two department stores and many other amenities. This is an example of how areas change, it's strange to see that Brent Cross could be upgraded, presumably after the current additions under construction. In the 70s when the centre opened it was a shopping magnet (technical term, I used to be a commercial property consultant) for most of North London.
dg writes: Holloway is listed as Nags Head (and yes, it's a Major centre).
amber | 24.11.17 - 10:47 a.m. | #
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Bromley-by-Bow might get upgraded? Does that mean there are plans to do something about the terribly depressing Bromley High Street / Stroudley Walk parade? It feels like such a missed opportunity.
dg writes: No, that's long-delayed plans for the Tesco superstore site.
lockedintheattic | 24.11.17 - 10:58 a.m. | #
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Oh that's a shame.
lockedintheattic | 24.11.17 - 11:13 a.m. | #
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Hounslow is a gruesome and depressing, traffic-choked and crime-ridden dump, leavened only by its ethnic shops. Richmond is far superior for shopping. So, indeed, is Chiswick. I can only assume Hounslow's presence is to fulfill some requirement for geographical spread of major centres.
dg writes: Hounslow is superior to Chiswick for shopping. But Chiswick is pitched at a more superior shopper.
David | 24.11.17 - 11:19 a.m. | #
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Comparison goods are goods where consumers are likely to want to visit multiple suppliers to compare before making a decision on which to purchase, eg cars, clothes, large electrical items etc.
greatkingrat | 24.11.17 - 11:23 a.m. | #
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New London plan comes out on 1st december, includes a much nicer map of the town centres and a better description of how they are categorised
dg writes: Aha, yes. I look forward to seeing it.
Flare | 24.11.17 - 11:33 a.m. | #
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There is a Bell road, Bell square, Bell public house-the oldest in the borough goes back to Dick Turpin- and a largish bell hanging at western end of Hounslow High street. Locals refer to "the bell".There is a local history panel at the Bell.
David: choking traffic does not effect Hounslow High Street as apart from a very small section it has been pedestrianised for several years. However Chiswick and Richmond both have traffic flowing through the shopping streets,
I only go to Hounslow occasionally as it is much cheaper than other shopping areas, especially Richmond and Chiswick.
Sainsburys in Chiswick stands on part of the site of the popular old Chiswick Empire theatre which closed in 1959. An office block is on the rest of the site.
John | 24.11.17 - 11:52 a.m. | #
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Re - Brent Cross, what are the criteria that defines what area is the shopping centre, for example there are retail outlets on the other side of the North Circular, with more on the other side of the railway at Staples Corner
dg writes: Brent Cross is currently classified as a 'Regional shopping centre', so does not yet appear on the 'town centre' list.
for example does Enfield stretch from the 'little' Waitrose near Enfield Chase Stn. to the Tesco just past Enfield Town Stn., or is it the area encompassed by the one way system?
dg writes: The former. It's all in the Enfield Town Centre Draft Framework masterplan (8MB pdf).
Still anon | 24.11.17 - 11:58 a.m. | #
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A common error perpetuated. Chiswick has a High Road, not a High Street.
dg writes: I stand corrected.
3078260061 | 24.11.17 - 1:07 p.m. | #
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Yeah, I'm not sure that either Chiswick or Richmond are either comparable to or better than Hounslow.
Chiswick is great if you want to walk a long way visiting tiny shops, half of which are upmarket delis. If you want proper shopping, you go to Westfield.
Richmond is great if you don't mind visiting a poor selection of tiny shops and getting run over by the traffic, pushing past everyone on the narrow pavement. If you want proper shopping, you go to Kingston.
Hounslow is nothing special, but it does have a reasonably compact selection of shops of all kinds, in a pedestrianised area, and it's not *that* bad.
Kirk | 24.11.17 - 1:58 p.m. | #
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I went to Harrods once during the time I lived in London for 6 years. That was back in 2002 and I was residing in New Cross Gate at the time (and dressed for that suburb). I bought some reasonable clobber and few CDs at about the same price anywhere else would have charged. No attitude from the staff. Perhaps things have changes in the intervening years.
Perfume counters are the same the world over. I don't think you're allowed to be employed there unless your nose is permanently held above your forehead.
Graham | 24.11.17 - 2:05 p.m. | #
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Most Chiswick residents would dissociate themselves from any connection with the Borough of Ho*nsl*w, despite being in the most easterly part of it. They'd much rather be in Hammersmith. If the constituency boundary changes go through, Chiswick will be bundled with Brentford, so that's OK, but please don't mention Ho*nsl*w.
I guess Chiswick is happy to hang on to its lower 'major centre' status so residents can fend off any 'tower blocks built by greedy developers', which would be difficult in a 'Metropolitan Centre' like Hounslow or Ealing.
None | 24.11.17 - 2:20 p.m. | #
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I pity the poor residents of Chiswick who want to be bundled with Brentford. To be honest Brentford at the moment is a very poor place to go to. Even the football club are looking to move away up the road to nearer Kew Bridge. Perhaps Brentford will be better when the riverside side regeneration comes along if they can get the moored boats on the river to move.
Tones | 24.11.17 - 2:37 p.m. | #
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Thanks for the Enfield link, agree with the comments about Richmond - a busy one way system with shops, Kingston is much more pleasant.
Still anon | 24.11.17 - 2:50 p.m. | #
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An interesting insight into the science of geography. Whatever you may think from quiz categories called "geography", real geographers (and of course real town planners) try to make sense of general principles, rather than gathering obscure knowledge of what is the capital of where.
Of course, these general principles do need to be grounded by actual examples, which is just what DG does here. Otherwise expressions like "major centre" would just sound like marketing jargon.
Malcolm | 24.11.17 - 4:23 p.m. | #
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Oh Brentford, it will always remain neglected. Morrisons is closing too so that place will literally have no life soon...
The "reconnecting Brentford waterside" poster has been up for months and they've literally done nothing. It's a shame because the location/connections are decent.
LBOTG | Homepage | 24.11.17 - 6:53 p.m. | #
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"Collective snubbery" at Harrods -- love it!
James Webber | Homepage | 24.11.17 - 7:45 p.m. | #
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Oh this list has been around at least since the 80's. I can remember it from my geography textbooks. Apart from Stratford which I think has bumped a level or two becuase of the Olympics.
There is a reason for these designations and it's all to do with permitted development. It's all about preserving the existing hiearchy and preventing towns from competing with each , too much.
SO only the largest centre would be permitted new large shopping centres, medium centres a big supermarket.
All property developers need to prepare retail development impact reports. which give breakdowns of how much spending is done in each area and how much should be done for pop and wealth, etc.
They look at population levels and income growth and will say this town can supprt an extra 300,000 of retail without harming it's neighbour etc.
Councils will object to plans in neighbouring boroughs if they think it will harm them.
rational plan | 24.11.17 - 11:38 p.m. | #
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Sounds to me like the category of "comparison goods" is entirely made up jargon. Most consumers will have compared the goods supplied by different retailers before deciding to make any purchase. So it means, in essence, "goods".
dg writes: Sounds to me like you never did 'A' Level geography.
Andrew | 25.11.17 - 8:31 a.m. | #
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A correction to Tones - Brentford Football club are moving from Brentford all the way to... Brentford. the land is situated in Brentford. Despite estate agents' trying their worst, there is no place called "Kew Bridge" - only a bridge near Kew.
Mark | 06.12.17 - 2:55 p.m. | #
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